Originally Posted by Commander

You're not forced to do group work. You're not forced to go to University either. You're also not forced to get out of your bed in the morning. Everything is up to you..

You can choose to do everything or you can do nothing at all.

This reminds me of one of my favourite teachers of all time:

Kid in my class: "Do we have to do this?"
Mr. Balkour: "You can do what ever you like, you can go and live in a box on the street for all I care."

Again you fail to see the point I am making.

You can't become a doctor, or get a Master's degree without doing well in school. Period. You can't do much without some sort of post-secondary education. The way this country works is unless you have something beyond HS, you're options are vastly limited. If you want a decent shot at life, the system forces you to do at least passably well in school. This forces you to do things like group work even if you don't want to do it. You can't screw off and not do things because no one forces you to do them. If I did not do the work, then I would have no chance of having the life I want.Nor would you. No one's going to hire a kid with a year of Engineering to a well-paying job.

In fact, you use your favourite words, I would LOSE my FREEDOM to live my life as I want later on. I would LOSE my many, many options because so many jobs and things depend on doing well in school. I would be FORCED to work at McDonald's or some other entry-level crap job for the REST of my life. I would be CONFINED by economic and social barriers, like living on minimum wage and never having a decent job to my name.

But who cares, right? As long as I get to play COD all night and party on the weekends, I'm free as a bird, right? Money doesn't mean anything, right? Because on minimum wages I'll be allowed to buy whatever I want whenever I want because I'm free, right? Having a secure and safe place to raise your children pales in comparison to having fun in university, right?


And please keep this "debate" somewhat intellectual. Don't throw around names like "brainwashed slave" and w/e. You just come off as ignorant, and unable to hold your own in a decent conversation.

Originally Posted by Commander

You are FORCING yourself. Oh Nature what have you done....

The system doesn't force you. You chose to follow the system. You could work at Macdonalds, but you chose University and a particular program.

You don't have to do anything, that's what being free is about.

I go to school because I want to, not because I have to. If let's say I get kicked for some reason, I would move on and follow the END GOAL I set for myself.

When you go to University, you are made aware that group work is a part of some courses but you aren't Forced to do them.

Go look for the verb force in the dictionary. You seem like a brainwashed slave of the system and of yourself.

However, you are Forced to go to High school in some way.

Your "end goal" must be really weird that you can achieve it with and without university or you could be just making stuff up.

Originally Posted by britb

Again you fail to see the point I am making.

You can't become a doctor, or get a Master's degree without doing well in school. Period.

If I did not do the work, then I would have no chance of having the life I want.

In fact, you use your favourite words, I would LOSE my FREEDOM to live my life as I want later on. I would be FORCED to work at McDonald's or some other entry-level crap job for the REST of my life. I would be CONFINED by economic and social barriers, like living on minimum wage and never having a decent job to my name.

If you want to succeed, you have to put in the work. You have to do things like group work and networking. You can't do what you want all the time.

But who cares, right? As long as I get to play COD all night and party on the weekends, I'm free as a bird, right?

So you're insulting MacDonald workers. Congratulations....

Since you don't know what force means I have to teach it to you.

In this context, to force is "To inflict or impose relentlessly" (Taken from Free Dictionary)

If I want to be a Physician/Surgeon, I go to University and work hard to get a Diploma. Then I have to go to Med School and get tasks completed. But its my choice and I accept the consequences.

If I want to be a remember of the Special Forces in the Army, I have to train and work hard for it. To get there, I have to accept the fact that I will listen to my superiors and execute every order. But its my choice and I accept the consequence.

ANYTHING is a Success. For some success is money. For others, it's happiness. And for courageous its fighting for ones country.

I have seen a documentary where a MEDICAL DOCTOR left his country and his work to serve in the US army special forces in Afghanistan. Now was he forced to ? No. But once he got in training, boy did he get orders.

Originally Posted by Commander

So you're insulting MacDonald workers. Congratulations....

Since you don't know what force means I have to teach it to you.

In this context, to force is "To inflict or impose relentlessly" (Taken from Free Dictionary)

If I want to be a Physician/Surgeon, I go to University and work hard to get a Diploma. Then I have to go to Med School and get tasks completed. But its my choice and I accept the consequences.

If I want to be a remember of the Special Forces in the Army, I have to train and work hard for it. To get there, I have to accept the fact that I will listen to my superiors and execute every order. But its my choice and I accept the consequence.

ANYTHING is a Success. For some success is money. For others, it's happiness. And for courageous its fighting for ones country.

I have seen a documentary where a MEDICAL DOCTOR left his country and his work to serve in the US army special forces in Afghanistan. Now was he forced to ? No. But once he got in training, boy did he get orders.

Exactly what are you trying to achieve in this post? Your definition doesn't even fit the context.

The med student is forced to go through medical school to become a doctor. The doctor is forced to go through training. Again, they have to make sacrifices to achieve what they want. Not because they want to, but becuase the govt/army/whoever forces them to. They can't slack off and do things when they feel like becuase they will not achieve their goals that way.

Anything is success. Sure. But how are you going to be successful if you float around doing whatever you please? You will never be successful being selfish and obeying your every whim. You will never be sucessful without buckling down and doing things you don't want to do (group work) becuase the system requires them to be completed (degrees, jobs, etc).

In short, you will not be successful by being a "brainwashed slave" to your needs and whims.

Originally Posted by britb

Exactly what are you trying to achieve in this post? Your definition doesn't even fit the context.

The med student is forced to go through medical school to become a doctor. The doctor is forced to go through training. Again, they have to make sacrifices to achieve what they want. Not because they want to, but becuase the govt/army/whoever forces them to. They can't slack off and do things when they feel like becuase they will not achieve their goals that way.

Anything is success. Sure. But how are you going to be successful if you float around doing whatever you please? You will never be successful being selfish and obeying your every whim. You will never be sucessful without buckling down and doing things you don't want to do (group work) becuase the system requires them to be completed (degrees, jobs, etc).

In short, you will not be successful by being a "brainwashed slave" to your needs and whims.

Wow you're close minded....

Successful is subjective.

Mr A can see himself as successful for being a good adult-orientated movie actor.

Ms A can see herself as being successful for being a good prostitute.

Mr Z can see himself as a successful being for killing 100 innocent civilians in a suicide attack.

Brainswashed slave to your needs and whim ? How can you be a slave to yourself. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard this week. I

And let's say the above makes sense. I could say the same thing of a Doctor. He could be a slave to his need for money, if that's what drives him. My definition fits the context more than your stupidity fits your mind.

A med student isn't force to go to medical school to become a doctor. He's required to, but not forced. Two different words.

An NFL player can play for a team, receives 3 million $ contract and refuses it to join the army. Was he forced ? No. (Look for Pat Tillman)

I have the ability to do whatever I want. I can go to Africa and try to swim across the Ocean. I might die, but I can certainly try. However I won't because I don't have the determination to do it and it's not my dream.

Originally Posted by thompson

It never seems to happen in the "real world" because management has real power over their employees.

Actually it does happen. All the time. They're the people who know the exact minimum of their job requirements necessary to keep their jobs. They never do any continuing education, conferences or workshops and they continue to slide by banking on the fact that grunt work is boring but necessary and will bring in a paycheck.

I honestly dont see what you guys are arguing about. It seems like you're just saying the same thing in different words...