Originally Posted by Afzal

really, wouldn't that be called slavery? I thought machines made license plates :s (atleast, they do in Pakistan :p)

I don't think that's slavery, they are sheltered, fed, have health care, and hygiene. Something that everyone pays for.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Under no circumstance should someone EVER have a "legitimate" reason to kill someone

Ethical Dilemma: What if by killing one life you save the lives of 10 others?

Originally Posted by syaseen

My point exactly.

They don't use "a couple of wooden bars." They go through an extensive series of expensive appeal processes to be absolutely sure that criminals are guilty of their crimes. I listed some sources in my previous post.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

This is exactly what I've been arguing against. I believe there is much to large a focus on rehabilitation. Under no circumstance should someone EVER have a "legitimate" reason to kill someone, or rape a child (assuming raping a child is much more severe than raping anyone). Everyone KNOWS the laws of society. You HAVE to, since ignorance of the law is never an allowed defence in a court of law. Knowing these laws, if you kill someone, you shouldn't GET a second chance. You knew the consequences!

What you're describing (with the rehabilitation) is EXACTLY what's going on in Canada. And I think that this is what many people are flustered about. These criminals KILL people and they're almost REWARDED.

hmm, human mind is an evolving thing, it won't be civilized until we do something about it. What the criminal thought to be right, he/she might regret it now. They are not rewarded, they have this condition and they should be helped, every person has a right to live.
I would like to point out that people's perspectives aren't there from their birth, they are a product of the society they live in. They must always have the chance to correct their thinking.

Here's an interesting logic: You don't put out fire with fire...you use water

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I don't care about living or dying. I don't care about humanity. Me answering that doesn't help your argument.

eheheh...why even argue about something you don't care?

Originally Posted by jhan523

I don't think that's slavery, they are sheltered, fed, have health care, and hygiene. Something that everyone pays for.

I think even slaves get that much, but even if it is slavery they are criminals I wouldnt feel too bad about it.

Originally Posted by jhan523

There's also the fact that we have to build prisons (I'm pretty sure there are more prisoners that enter prison than die), hire people for the prison (guards, prison warden, etc..), provide food, hygiene, health care. There is also the maintenance of the building to put into consideration.

States that have eliminated the death penalty have saved money (New York is a good example of this.) Remember that prisons are needed to hold prisoners before execution too, as well as facilities for the actual execution, guards and workers, etc etc. I didn't just make all that up you know.

Well if the person wasn't guilty for their crimes wouldn't they have tried getting appeals regardless?

Originally Posted by syaseen

Explain

For capital punishment, you have to consider the cost of trials... which are funded by the public and can take many years, especially with appeals.

Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

Ethical Dilemma: What if by killing one life you save the lives of 10 others?

Which is why capital punishment was first put in place (in my opinion) since it's the state's responsibility to protect all it's citizens. So killing a murderer is potentially saving hundreds/thousands of lives.

But I don't think that's needed, life (actual life) imprisonment is good enough provided the security is extremely high (no chances of escape) and is more ethical than killing other people.

Of course if the setting is different (hostage robbery, etc...) then the situation is different. But that's not related to Capital Punishment.

So keeping the topic of this thread in mind, no it's not better to kill someone in order to save other lives because you could just imprison them for life.

Originally Posted by Afzal

Here's an interesting logic: You don't put out fire with fire...you use water

Sometimes firefighters let forest fires burn out or feed them so there isnt the chance of area catching ablaze again. I think that same method can be applied to the criminal system.

Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

Well if the person wasn't guilty for their crimes wouldn't they have tried getting appeals regardless?

Its not the prisoners who try to get appeals in the case of capital punishment, its the government that REQUIRES them, and many of them, before they will execute a criminal. They have to be absolutely sure.

why are most of you thinking that once a criminal is a criminal for life?
people change, people regret mistakes, people wish they could undo them...well they can't undo but they can change for the better!

Originally Posted by katie_batt

States that have eliminated the death penalty have saved money (New York is a good example of this.) Remember that prisons are needed to hold prisoners before execution too, as well as facilities for the actual execution, guards and workers, etc etc. I didn't just make all that up you know.

But without capital punishment the prisoners would be there for longer and thus there will be capacity problems, so you would have to build more prisons. Having execution means you are freeing up space in your prison to house more prisoners.

(I already established in my first reply here that I'm more "rehabilitation first" although I'd think there is some sort of situational factor involved.

On the other hand, I just love nitpicking on message boards )

Originally Posted by jhan523

But without capital punishment the prisoners would be there for longer and thus there will be capacity problems, so you would have to build more prisons. Having execution means you are freeing up space in your prison to house more prisoners.

Well sure, but keep in mind how often executions actually take place, and how long prisoners spend on death row. Its a very very slow process.