Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

Ethical Dilemma: What if by killing one life you save the lives of 10 others?

How is that an ethical dilemma. XD That's exactly what I'm arguing for. Assuming our justice system is the way it is now but with capital punishment implemented, then killers and rapists are walking loose and statistics prove that they're bound to reoffend (would need to look up this statistic again).

If killing one person who lost his chance at living in society but still gets a second chance and would probably reoffend gives us the opportunity to save the lives of 10 innocent people, then yea. Kill him. He lost his chance.

And by the post you quoted, I meant "legitimate reason to kill someone innocent."

eheheh...why even argue about something you don't care?

1) It's fun
2) The unexamined life is not worth living
3) I don't care about humanity, which is exactly why I'm FOR capital punishment. XD

A return to captial punishment would probably deter a lot of the crime. It has worked pretty damn well in Singapore. e.g. Drug trafficing results in the death sentence there. If this was implemented in Canada, there would be a lot less drug addicts on the streets in British Columbia (especially in Vancouver).

Originally Posted by Afzal

why are most of you thinking that once a criminal is a criminal for life?
people change, people regret mistakes, people wish they could undo them...well they can't undo but they can change for the better!

For some crimes there is the chance of change, but for others not so much. For example, a thief should be given the chance to change. However, a rapist/murder who knowing full well what they did was wrong committed the crime then how much do you think they will change. If anything youll teach them how to get away with t next time.

Originally Posted by katie_batt

Well sure, but keep in mind how often executions actually take place, and how long prisoners spend on death row. Its a very very slow process.

I'm sure it's faster than 50-70 years though.

Originally Posted by Afzal

why are most of you thinking that once a criminal is a criminal for life?
people change, people regret mistakes, people wish they could undo them...well they can't undo but they can change for the better!

Well there could just be some truly deranged people out there (think: Joker from the Batman movies) who just cause havoc and death for the hell of it.

Course those types of people are *really* rare, but you could kinda see why some people won't want them back into society and dislike the idea that they're paying money to keep them alive and relatively comfortable.

Originally Posted by syaseen

For some crimes there is the chance of change, but for others not so much. For example, a thief should be given the chance to change. However, a rapist/murder who knowing full well what they did was wrong committed the crime then how much do you think they will change. If anything youll teach them how to get away with t next time.

depends on the situation in which crime was committed

Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

Well there could just be some truly deranged people out there (think: Joker from the Batman movies) who just cause havoc and death for the hell of it.

Course those types of people are *really* rare, but you could kinda see why some people won't want them back into society and dislike the idea that they're paying money to keep them alive and relatively comfortable.

That is why I suggest a 3 or more-staged program for gradual change. I don't propose that society be forced to face these people unless they change and become civilized

Imprisonment for life or Killing the criminal is not the proper way of dealing with problems, you have got to get to the roots of why it happens and solve that.

An engineer doesn't just throw away a component of machinery and order a new one unless said component is unrepairable, but he still tries to repair it first, then disposes of it if it is hopeless

Originally Posted by lawleypop

How is that an ethical dilemma. XD That's exactly what I'm arguing for. Assuming our justice system is the way it is now but with capital punishment implemented, then killers and rapists are walking loose and statistics prove that they're bound to reoffend (would need to look up this statistic again).

If killing one person who lost his chance at living in society but still gets a second chance and would probably reoffend gives us the opportunity to save the lives of 10 innocent people, then yea. Kill him. He lost his chance.

And by the post you quoted, I meant "legitimate reason to kill someone innocent."



1) It's fun
2) The unexamined life is not worth living
3) I don't care about humanity, which is exactly why I'm FOR capital punishment. XD
[/color][/color]

But what I'm saying is that there is an alternative to capital punishment which is ACTUAL life sentences.

Originally Posted by jhan523

I'm sure it's faster than 50-70 years though.

I'm not gunna beat a dead horse...

Originally Posted by lawleypop

And by the post you quoted, I meant "legitimate reason to kill someone innocent."

You've just been lawyer'd

Originally Posted by jhan523

But what I'm saying is that there is an alternative to capital punishment which is ACTUAL life sentences.

I've said in an earlier post (it was an edit) that I'd be willing to change my opinion if Canada's justice system was as strict and "fair" as you continue to describe it.

But I do believe an "eye for an eye" is the most fair thing, ESPECIALLY when the justice system is how it is.

Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

You've just been lawyer'd

I don't follow.

Is this your way of saying I got owned?

I thought it was pretty obvious what I wanted to say. I didn't think that it was necessary for me to add in one word (innocent). Of course, I'm assuming that everyone here is intelligent and can follow a train of thought. He rebutted, I rebutted, I think I argued it pretty well. I don't think I've been "schooled." (If this is, of course, what you meant).

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I've said in an earlier post (it was an edit) that I'd be willing to change my opinion if Canada's justice system was as strict and "fair" as you continue to describe it.

But I do believe an "eye for an eye" is the most fair thing, ESPECIALLY when the justice system is how it is.

Ah I see, I must have no see that edit (this thread is going so fast >.<).

I agree that killing murderers and what not is a better alternative to letting them free on the condition that our justice system is the way it is.

Originally Posted by JEFF_CHAN

On the other hand, I just love nitpicking on message boards )

Being annoying also helps me cope with the jet lag fatigue as I'm trying to fix my sleeping schedule after my trip 2 weeks ago

(also it's an obscure HIMYM thing)

Interesting thread.

I think the most obvious theme that has come up is that most people agree that the justice system needs an overhaul. Currently it is just not sufficing.

The death penalty probably isn't the first measure to take but harsher penalties certainly are. The fact that people can get out of jail and say they've paid their dues is beyond ridiculous. You can never pay your dues for killing someone's father, mother, sister, brother, aunt, cousin, best friend, girlfriend, boyfriend, wife etc. You haven't repaid your debt to society. The fact that people can get out and re-offend when the system claims it's goal is to rehabilitate is just insane.

I mean for example it is widely believed and accepted that pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated and are at a very high risk to re offend but are still given pretty leinient sentences. Even touching a child inappropriately once should land you in prison for your life (not 25 years) especially when experts feel that you are unable to be rehabilitated and will most likely re-offend. Why should you be let out to destroy the life of another child? It's a shame that there is obviously something wrong with these people's brains and that is unfortunate for them and maybe one day there will be a way to treat them but these kinds of criminals need harsher sentences. A slap on the wrist as others have put it is not a deterrent, serving 3 years in jail and then being allowed out to destroy another child's life is complete and utter bs.

Rehabilitation to me is just not the answer for most criminals that commit heinous crimes. As I already said it is a huge waste of time, money and really it is a huge waste of faith, empathy, compassion etc. Why should we as a society waste our hopes on such despicable people feeling that maybe they can be cured? They have done nothing to earn that feeling from me.

Originally Posted by sew12

Interesting thread.

I think the most obvious theme that has come up is that most people agree that the justice system needs an overhaul. Currently it is just not sufficing.

The death penalty probably isn't the first measure to take but harsher penalties certainly are. The fact that people can get out of jail and say they've paid their dues is beyond ridiculous. You can never pay your dues for killing someone's father, mother, sister, brother, aunt, cousin, best friend, girlfriend, boyfriend, wife etc. You haven't repaid your debt to society. The fact that people can get out and re-offend when the system claims it's goal is to rehabilitate is just insane.

I mean for example it is widely believed and accepted that pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated and are at a very high risk to re offend but are still given pretty leinient sentences. Even touching a child inappropriately once should land you in prison for your life (not 25 years) especially when experts feel that you are unable to be rehabilitated and will most likely re-offend. Why should you be let out to destroy the life of another child? It's a shame that there is obviously something wrong with these people's brains and that is unfortunate for them and maybe one day there will be a way to treat them but these kinds of criminals need harsher sentences. A slap on the wrist as others have put it is not a deterrent, serving 3 years in jail and then being allowed out to destroy another child's life is complete and utter bs.

Rehabilitation to me is just not the answer for most criminals that commit heinous crimes. As I already said it is a huge waste of time, money and really it is a huge waste of faith, empathy, compassion etc. Why should we as a society waste our hopes on such despicable people feeling that maybe they can be cured? They have done nothing to earn that feeling from me.

I agree, however pedophiles in jail maybe not. I would rather put them in another secure facility since it's most likely a mental problem. I don't think they deserve jail just because they think that way.

I think it's the same thing for mental criminals, aren't they put in another institution?