I am considering no longer driving. This change is based on a few factors, mainly economic efficiency and the environment. That said, I would like to know how many of you are or have done the same thing, what your opinions of this are (not my choices, but of the whole green movement), and any tips or suggestions.

Also, if anyone is able to turn me on to any sites or books about bikes that would be great.

*N.B. I am NOT talking about motorcycle bikes

Nothing feels better in the morning than revving a V8 engine and killing a few trees!


...Just kidding!


As far as the green movement is concerned, I'm really impressed with Tesla Motors, and have been following their actions for a while now. They were started by the same guy who created PayPal (who then sold it and became a billionaire allowing him to fund Tesla).

They are making fully electric cars (No gasoline engine what-so-ever), and best yet, their cars actually can go for 240-400 miles on a single charge depending on which car we're talking about.

By 2011, they will have released their 4-door sedan which will be modestly priced when considering the luxury it has. Eventually, they will mass produce a cheaper version of that sedan which will be priced at a much lower end (i.e. $18,000-$20,000). I really think that Tesla is going to be the future of motoring.

Their current sports car is faster than any Ferrari (Except the enzo), and is twice as economical as a Toyota Prius. You can't beat that. Goes to show you that cars don't have to kill the environment.

I started biking to work today, not going to bike tomorrow though because I am way to sore.
I am biking mainly for the exercise benefits, getting the cars of the road thing is secondary and not that important to me (I think the green movement is a fad and don't put too much weight into it mostly because the people who think it is so important are only making superficial changes). There is definitely money to be saved, according to mapmyrun.com i saved over 5 bucks on gas today (however i definitely made up for that driving around at work all day).

Obviously driving is way more comfortable and hopefully shorter, but I always feel satisfied after I finish riding home from work because I accomplished something that most people wouldn't attempt. (my way of taking pleasure out of pain)

Originally Posted by PTGregD

Nothing feels better in the morning than revving a V8 engine and killing a few trees!


...Just kidding!


As far as the green movement is concerned, I'm really impressed with Tesla Motors, and have been following their actions for a while now. They were started by the same guy who created PayPal (who then sold it and became a billionaire allowing him to fund Tesla).

They are making fully electric cars (No gasoline engine what-so-ever), and best yet, their cars actually can go for 240-400 miles on a single charge depending on which car we're talking about.

By 2011, they will have released their 4-door sedan which will be modestly priced when considering the luxury it has. Eventually, they will mass produce a cheaper version of that sedan which will be priced at a much lower end (i.e. $18,000-$20,000). I really think that Tesla is going to be the future of motoring.

Their current sports car is faster than any Ferrari (Except the enzo), and is twice as economical as a Toyota Prius. You can't beat that. Goes to show you that cars don't have to kill the environment.

Good points Greg! Tesla Motors is great. Honestly, if they were already being mass produced I would probably not have given up driving. That said, I really think I can kill two birds with one stone (damn! We're both so destructive ) by riding a bike. That is, I can stay in shape and get to where I want to go without paying for gas or insurance. My green decision is mostly economical.

The downfall of bikes is that they aren't fun to drive when the weather sucks (which is often in souther Ontario) and it is kind of hard to pick girls up this way.


Jeff: I agree, it does feel good to get things done that you otherwise wouldn't (being or staying fit). I just hope you heal and keep it up. It would probably be best to bike and then just get my full G licence so that I can use the Tesla at some point.

Another thing I thought about is being able to take things with you. This will be kind of hard on a bike unless you have a basket, which is not very fashionable. If only there was someone to take all this into consideration and create a vehicle that reflects that.

Electric cars just keep on going further and further. I also stumbled on the "air-fueled battery". They say it could last up to 10 times longer and should be cheaper than current rechargeable batteries. (source: http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/PressReleases/oxlithbattery.htm)

As for the bike, I'm sure you could just wear a backpack. Or make friends with an engineer and get them to construct some sort of box above your rear-wheel. I'm very sure you can find a sleek box. Or maybe they even make them, it's quite a simple idea and I'm sure someone has thought of it before.

I don't drive at all. I walk/bike/bus everywhere and its definitely manageable, but it's not for everyone. You do end up saving a lot of money, but you really need to get to know the bus system in order to save time. Take advantage of the bus racks on buses though, they are a great help. Anyways, good for you for making this decision! It's awesome for the environment and it's good for your health as well. As for the whole carrying things with you, I just bring a backpack. It's sufficient most times.

I think if you're picking up the kind of girls who want you to have a car, you should be more concerned about some other things...

But anyway, I am a big proponent of the bike. If you buy a bike that's made for the road as opposed to a mountain bike, life's a lot easier. They (sometimes) come with racks over the back wheel so you can hang bags there so you can carry groceries and other fun things. Or you could buy em, like the bags. Or you could even just strap things down to the rack with bungee cords! My favourite place ever for road bikes is Curbside Cycle in downtown Toronto - they have everything you could ever need or want for urban cycling.

In the Netherlands, everyone bikes! When I went there last summer, I saw a woman with her 5 children on one bike, as well as another in killer heels and a dress. So the bike is definitely an option for modern transportation.

Edit: Thought I should link you to Curbside Cycle - http://www.curbside.on.ca/. They have very knowledgeable and extremely nice staff if you ever want to shoot them an e-mail or visit the store. Their blog also has some useful info and links if you're actually interested in learning more about city biking! (I sound like an ad for them, but they're just so wonderful that I have to promote them, hahaha.)

Originally Posted by JeffB

I think the green movement is a fad and don't put too much weight into it mostly because the people who think it is so important are only making superficial changes.

... since when has being environmentally friendly been a fad? If everyone keeps saying "oh well, I don't have to because probably no one else is", then it will never happen. You fail.

I ride my bike almost everyday to work in Toronto. It takes just as long as taking public transit (the TTC is too damn slow). The only problem is that I work downtown and sometimes it's really hard to get around due to people driving ridiculously close to the sidewalk or right over bicycle paths.

As to this Tesla business, I think it's a good idea, but obviously, problems with power have to be sorted out first. I'm pretty sure most electrical grids around today can't handle a city full of electric vehicles.

Another problem with the electric car, maybe not necessarily in our country but in others, is the fact that you are most likely going to be using the electrical grid to recharge your car. Now where does this electricity come from? Perhaps coal power plants or other electric power plants which do contribute to green house gases.

Unless you have enough cash to afford your own solar or wind energy, which in the long run pays off, but only after many many many years.

Originally Posted by Iman

I think if you're picking up the kind of girls who want you to have a car, you should be more concerned about some other things...

But anyway, I am a big proponent of the bike. If you buy a bike that's made for the road as opposed to a mountain bike, life's a lot easier. They (sometimes) come with racks over the back wheel so you can hang bags there so you can carry groceries and other fun things. Or you could buy em, like the bags. Or you could even just strap things down to the rack with bungee cords! My favourite place ever for road bikes is Curbside Cycle in downtown Toronto - they have everything you could ever need or want for urban cycling.

In the Netherlands, everyone bikes! When I went there last summer, I saw a woman with her 5 children on one bike, as well as another in killer heels and a dress. So the bike is definitely an option for modern transportation.

Edit: Thought I should link you to Curbside Cycle - http://www.curbside.on.ca/. They have very knowledgeable and extremely nice staff if you ever want to shoot them an e-mail or visit the store. Their blog also has some useful info and links if you're actually interested in learning more about city biking! (I sound like an ad for them, but they're just so wonderful that I have to promote them, hahaha.)

Thanks for the link, they do sound really good. I will check them out soon.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

... since when has being environmentally friendly been a fad? If everyone keeps saying "oh well, I don't have to because probably no one else is", then it will never happen. You fail.

It's been a fad for the past year or two, when the word 'green' started appearing on television (and even the news) more than anything else practically...not to mention when it began being used to sell product (such as a commercial I just saw selling an 'environmentally friendly FIDO phone). No one's suggesting being a fad is a bad thing (infact, as you're suggesting it's how you get the ball rolling), JeffB's merely made that (on point) observation...He certainly does not "fail" for doing so, he's come to his own decision (as you have). But you can't blame him for being turned off by the 'fad-like' behaviour...it turns me off, and I've been trying to be environmentally friendly for a long time now.

Brief Aside: A pretty big problem in today's society (in my opinion) is that people accept their beliefs and lifestyle as the norm, and fail to recognize other peoples' as anything more than 'retarded' views on reality. A simple example is driving...ever have a tailgater come up behind you and annoy you? You probably thought 'what an idiot, what's the rush? They're driving like such a maniac!' while the other driver thought "Gaaaaah, this stupid idiot's driving too slow!" Each driver accepts their speed limit as the norm, and thinks the other driver is silly. But is either one actually silly?...A priori ("without prior knowledge"), neither one is. Is the front driver going 2 km/h? Or is the tailgater going 120 km/h on a main road? Perhaps neither? Maybe they're both within the speed limit...(Now that's what I call Relativity)

So my point is, many people place environmentalism above all else...and many others don't...and they constantly bicker instead of understanding that people have different priorities in life. Doesn't make anyone 'bad' or a 'failure' it's just how life is...and that goes for everything, politics, religion, etc. (I'm writing a book on this very topic ) You don't have to accept someone else's lifestyle/beliefs to acknowledge them as valid, for them.


If you haven't witnessed this crowd-like environmentalist phenomenon in people first hand, then perhaps you've had a rather skewed sample. (Generally people in university tend to be better educated, which is one possible explanation). Take a walk through your old highschool and you'll see mountains of people who know nothing of real environmentalism...pe ople who have not done any thinking or research into the matter, but spout all of the slogans because everyone else does. Should you ever ask them a question about it, such as what steps they are taking, they give you this dumb look, as if to say "How dare you!" before throwing out some media hot topic words in regards to the "green movement" or PETA. Heck, the girl I asked thought composting was gross, but was quick to assure me that her family uses the "Green-bin."

What turns me off of the so called "green movement" (wherein I refer to the general fad, not environmentalism itself) is that I've been taking steps in my own personal way for years now...all of a sudden it's popular, and I have differences of opinion in regards to what exactly is 'environmentally friendly.' I'm now shunned by society, because I output about 3 bags of garbage a week (large family) as opposed to one as the city expects, and because I refuse to recycle paper after taking a trip to ye olde recycling plant (I've since started composting paper (a tedious process), which in my opinion, is far more environmentally friendly than bleaching and re-bleaching recycled paper...you'd probably have to see it to believe it, so I encourage you to do so). But should I ever say I don't do paper recycling because I believe it's the "bad alternative" people tend to bite my head off about it.


Again...difference of opinion from the norm, so my philosophy is generally frowned upon without people hearing me out.


And not to mention, grocery stores are now charging for bags to discourage the use of disposable bags...that's all fine and good, except they already have a markup in their prices for bags!

Has anyone lowered their prices to match this new fee? Certainly not...grocery stores are merely rubbing their greedy mitts together, for they've found a new source of income. If this isn't abusing a fad, then I dunno what is...

Good old Price Chopper, who has always charged for bags, but had less markup on their goods to compensate, is now my first choice for groceries. They were 'cool' long before the other stores followed suit. Haha

----------------------------------

As for riding a bike, I would say don't even do it for any green reason, or even an economic one...do it for your health! I won't go into the specifics, but you can get into great shape just by making a small change in your lifestyle, such as riding a bike instead of driving (provided you live within biking distance of your destination).

Ya.. you could have made that a little less TL;DR.

I think it's stupid to round in riding a bicycle with this "green movement stuff". Riding a bicycle has always been more environmentally friendly. It's not like it just happened a few years ago...

Stuff I consider part of this "Green Movement" fad are products and products only (i.e. Decomposable plastic bags, hybrid vehicles). Methods to reduce your waste output are not part of any fad. Only a moron would not compost for the sole reason of "not wanting to be like everyone else". I thought that would be common sense to everyone. There, your reason why that guy fails.

As to your plastic bag thing, I don't understand why you think you should be getting a better deal on food just because the bags cost more. That completely invalidates the whole point of making you not want to purchase the bags.

Why not use random cloth bags? I've been doing that for two years now...

The thing about the plastic bags that bothers me is two-fold. First, if I'm buying raw meat I do not want to put it in a cloth bag. Then all the meat raw-ness ends up on the bag...ewww. Second, the small plastic bags are the perfect size for small garbage cans!

Grrr.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Stuff I consider part of this "Green Movement" fad are products and products only (i.e. Decomposable plastic bags, hybrid vehicles). Methods to reduce your waste output are not part of any fad. Only a moron would not compost for the sole reason of "not wanting to be like everyone else". I thought that would be common sense to everyone. There, your reason why that guy fails.

As to your plastic bag thing, I don't understand why you think you should be getting a better deal on food just because the bags cost more. That completely invalidates the whole point of making you not want to purchase the bags.

Why not use random cloth bags? I've been doing that for two years now...

If you consider that to be "TL;DR"...well, let's say, you have to read and absorb much longer (and more boring) things in an academic environment...so I really don't think that's an issue, if you know what I mean. Sure, you can call my post scatter-brained (because that's how I am lol), but TL;DR shouldn't do it justice in an academic environment such as this...but I'll try my best to K.I.S.S.

(Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't infer that anyone was a moron based on one line in one random internet post that you can't even prove you have interpreted correctly...if you saw one of Einstein's early math tests, you'd infer he was a moron too, but that certainly was not the case. Giving a 'reason' why your opinion is valid is as misconstrued as the everyday notion of 'proof.' That scientists have 'proved' gravity exists, for instance)


You interpreted his words in a specific way...as if to say "I'm not doing it because other people won't (or will) anyway" (which even if this is what JeffB meant, this sort of thing happens with so many things it's not funny...probably some you would even agree with, but I don't know you personally so I can't give a convincing example).

I interpreted JeffB's words differently. Even you have acknowledged 'the fad,' is inherent in the media through (at least) products (I think the concept of an earth hour concert is ridiculous, so it goes beyond merely products). I thought JeffB was saying that this superficial attitude toward environmentalism cheapens the cause.

Like I said, I look at teenagers walking around in "Fashionable" T-Shirts spouting slogans like "Kiss Me, I'm Earth Friendly" and not actually having a clue, and I'm turned off of the whole environment thing...if I didn't do it prior to all this stuff, I never would have started.


As for plastic bags...I'm guessing you don't cook a lot of meat? If you buy cuts of meat in a cloth bag, you end up throwing out the cloth bag soon after because it gets bloody. I feel your pain lorend, haha.

Originally Posted by PTGregD

They are making fully electric cars (No gasoline engine what-so-ever), and best yet, their cars actually can go for 240-400 miles on a single charge depending on which car we're talking about.

Actual range is something like 220 miles or about 350 or so kilometres, which might vary in practice. That's not too bad, but remember you can't just fill it up at a station in a few minutes. Tesla states a 3.5 hr charge time from a 70 A, 240 V socket. Who the hell has that in their house? From a 15 A, 110 V socket like most north american households would take about 30 hours to fully charge.

Originally Posted by PTGregD

By 2011, they will have released their 4-door sedan which will be modestly priced when considering the luxury it has. Eventually, they will mass produce a cheaper version of that sedan which will be priced at a much lower end (i.e. $18,000-$20,000). I really think that Tesla is going to be the future of motoring.

Their current sports car is faster than any Ferrari (Except the enzo), and is twice as economical as a Toyota Prius. You can't beat that. Goes to show you that cars don't have to kill the environment.

Lol Prius is shit.

And as to whether its faster than any ferrari other than the enzo, not quite. Top Gear managed to get it around their track about as fast as a 911 GT3 or an Aston Martin DB9, which is extrememly impressive for an electric, but worse than cars like the Ferrari F430 and the 575 M.

I too think Tesla is heading in the right direction, but it will take a lot more to work out all the kinks in the design and shift the market away from fossil fuels.