Originally Posted by lorend

The thing about the plastic bags that bothers me is two-fold. First, if I'm buying raw meat I do not want to put it in a cloth bag. Then all the meat raw-ness ends up on the bag...ewww. Second, the small plastic bags are the perfect size for small garbage cans!

Grrr.

Oh damn... I just realized that I got JeffB's post confused with a post on a different site altogether on a similar issue in my second post ... wow I guess I'm the one who fails -.-||. I misinterpreted JeffB's first post too :p (should have read more closely). Everything from "TL'DR" to "As to your plastic bag thing.." should have been on a different site :p. Sorry to anyone I enraged :p.

Anyway; when you buy meat, doesn't it come pre-wrapped in something? Every time I buy meat, it comes in a folded up beige coloured wrapper or in a transparent plastic bag (different from the ones you are referring to). I don't think it can go into a cloth bag unless it's dehydrated.

As to the TL;DR thing, don't take it personally. I'm in engineering and concider most things to be TL;DR.

You have summed up my words better than i could have.

To further what I was saying about how it is a fad. Last year, the environment was the most important thing in everyones lives, this year as the economy weakens the environment is being pushed to the back of peoples minds. Yes there are people that it will always be foremost but most people aren't basing their decisions on money instead of the environment.

Originally Posted by a-max

Actual range is something like 220 miles or about 350 or so kilometres, which might vary in practice. That's not too bad, but remember you can't just fill it up at a station in a few minutes. Tesla states a 3.5 hr charge time from a 70 A, 240 V socket. Who the hell has that in their house? From a 15 A, 110 V socket like most north american households would take about 30 hours to fully charge.

I've heard that companies are researching super capacitors which can be charged in literally 10 seconds, since current battery technology is pretty much tapped out. Sounds a little farfetched to me though and more like a dream which will never be reached... kind of like quantum computers :p.

Originally Posted by a-max

Actual range is something like 220 miles or about 350 or so kilometres, which might vary in practice. That's not too bad, but remember you can't just fill it up at a station in a few minutes. Tesla states a 3.5 hr charge time from a 70 A, 240 V socket. Who the hell has that in their house? From a 15 A, 110 V socket like most north american households would take about 30 hours to fully charge.



Lol Prius is shit.

And as to whether its faster than any ferrari other than the enzo, not quite. Top Gear managed to get it around their track about as fast as a 911 GT3 or an Aston Martin DB9, which is extrememly impressive for an electric, but worse than cars like the Ferrari F430 and the 575 M.

I too think Tesla is heading in the right direction, but it will take a lot more to work out all the kinks in the design and shift the market away from fossil fuels.

It actually is faster than any Ferrari besides the Enzo. The Top Gear track is not the industry standard for speed testing. 0-60 times are, and this car does it faster than any Ferrari besides the Enzo.

Based on the Top Gear Track, the Bugatti Veyron would be "slower" than a lot of cars it is actually faster than.

Tesla's design is fine, and they don't have to do anything to convince people to switch. Eventually it will come down to either buying a Tesla or buying a similarly priced gasoline car. The difference is that Tesla's are much cheaper to run. At that point, it doesn't matter if you care about the environment; You're going to pick the Tesla because you want to save money.

Oh, and that's the range on their Roadster Sports Car; Their sedan will have the range I was talking about.

One last thing; Tesla has stated that a battery swap will be possible, which only takes five minutes.

When I buy meat (at a grocery store anyway), it usually comes in either a plastic white, or styrofoam sheet, wrapped in Saran wrap...this does typically bleed through, and infact, traditionally, would have been bagged in a separate bag to prevent food contamination. In cloth bags, it doesn't work so well.

I did realize I missed one additional point I wanted to clarify about plastic bags. I'm confused now if you're saying you meant to say this to me or not, haha, but you asked why we should get a better deal on food because we pay for bags.

I'm not saying the price of food should be lower, I was simply saying that now, we are paying for bags twice.

There is an original price that the grocery store pays to purchase a good. Then, they apply a 'markup' to the price, so as to turn a profit, and sell the good for this higher price (it's only fair!).

Markups include such thing as employee/employer wages, utilities for the store, and, you guessed it, grocery bags. (You didn't really think they used to be free...did you?)

So back last year, the price of bags was included in the cost of the food you were buying (except for as I mentioned, places like Price Chopper, where they explicitly state their markup does not include bags). But now, you're paying 5, 10 cents a bag, and the price did not drop!

So the price of bags is included in the markup (on the goods themselves), and when you physically purchase bags...you pay it twice.

Think about it...even using a cloth bag, you're still paying an inflated price to accomodate the sale of plastic bags. Even if the specific store no longer claims it's for bags, and now gives it a fancy name like 'floor polish tax' your money is still disappearing as it did before.



Besides, first year psych: positive reinforcement is superior method of teaching behaviour when compared with punishment (; That's why the places that pay you for using your own bags did so well, and will probably continue to do well. (I think Fortinos was one of these places). In reality, this is how it should be...since Fortinos (I think) was simply refunding you the markup on goods for the plastic bags you're not using.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

When I buy meat (at a grocery store anyway), it usually comes in either a plastic white, or styrofoam sheet, wrapped in Saran wrap...this does typically bleed through, and infact, traditionally, would have been bagged in a separate bag to prevent food contamination. In cloth bags, it doesn't work so well.

I did realize I missed one additional point I wanted to clarify about plastic bags. I'm confused now if you're saying you meant to say this to me or not, haha, but you asked why we should get a better deal on food because we pay for bags.

I'm not saying the price of food should be lower, I was simply saying that now, we are paying for bags twice.

There is an original price that the grocery store pays to purchase a good. Then, they apply a 'markup' to the price, so as to turn a profit, and sell the good for this higher price (it's only fair!).

Markups include such thing as employee/employer wages, utilities for the store, and, you guessed it, grocery bags. (You didn't really think they used to be free...did you?)

So back last year, the price of bags was included in the cost of the food you were buying (except for as I mentioned, places like Price Chopper, where they explicitly state their markup does not include bags). But now, you're paying 5, 10 cents a bag, and the price did not drop!

So the price of bags is included in the markup (on the goods themselves), and when you physically purchase bags...you pay it twice.

Think about it...even using a cloth bag, you're still paying an inflated price to accomodate the sale of plastic bags. Even if the specific store no longer claims it's for bags, and now gives it a fancy name like 'floor polish tax' your money is still disappearing as it did before.



Besides, first year psych: positive reinforcement is a far superior method of teaching behaviour than punishment (; That's why the places that pay you for using your own bags did so well, and will probably continue to do well. (I think Fortinos was one of these places). In reality, this is how it should be...since Fortinos (I think) was simply refunding you the markup on goods for the plastic bags you're not using.

I see what you're saying. Our bill includes a price for bags, and now they're charging us for the bags, but not removing the mark-up; so we pay twice.

I guess that's a good point. We're still paying for them to be manufactured even though we aren't using them :p. The mark up should be removed altogether to solve any problems...

I should really read more closely before starting arguments -.-||, but then again, that's what makes the internet so fun

Mowicz: Please let us know when you are done with the book; I would love to read it!