Hello,

I am thinking of doing this field of engineering at McMaster. Since it is a general first year, and SBI4U (Grade 12 Biology) is not a pre-requisite for engineering, but a pre-req for bio 2nd year in biomedical engineering, should I take it in the summer just to have it or is it better to do it in regular school?

Thanks.

Grade 12 biology is not required for biomedical engineering students to take bio 1A03 in second year. So, you can take it if you want and the knowledge will probably help, but it is not a prerequisite..

On the website, it states that:

Prerequisite(s):
Grade 12 Biology U or BIOLOGY 1P03 and registration in any Level I program in the Faculty of Science or any program above Level I; or registration in Arts & Science I, Chemical Engineering and Bioengineering, or Electrical and Biomedical Engineering

The website is telling me this? But thanks for your response.

Originally Posted by J.Clouseau

On the website, it states that:

Prerequisite(s):
Grade 12 Biology U or BIOLOGY 1P03 and registration in any Level I program in the Faculty of Science or any program above Level I; or registration in Arts & Science I, Chemical Engineering and Bioengineering, or Electrical and Biomedical Engineering

The website is telling me this? But thanks for your response.

Notice all the places it says "or", as well as the semicolon. These things really matter when it comes to reading prerequisites.

You need to meet one of the following criteria:

Grade 12 bio + any level 1 program in the faculty of science

OR

Grade 12 bio + any program above level 1

OR

Registration in Arts and Science I

OR

Registration in chemical engineering and bioengineering

OR

Registration in electrical and biomedical engineering


You would fall under the last category, and so grade 12 bio is not required.

Also, just a note - if a course is required for your program, there won't be additional prerequisites. Either the prerequisite courses will also be required as a part of your program, or, as in this case, the prerequisite course does not apply.

They won't say that a course is required for your program but it has a prerequisite that isn't required, since in that case the prerequisite would technically be "required" even if it wasn't listed in the course calendar, since you would need to take it in order to fulfill your program requirements. So they will always have any prerequisites listed as required in the course calendar for your program under those circumstances.

I think sbi4u is not required for 2nd year elec & biomed. I mean think about, what if someone changed their mind in first year and decided to do elec & biomed..does that mean he/she can't do so because they didn't take bio in grade 12? I know it says on the website that you need grade 12 bio, but i am sure they will let you in without it.

Tip: don't waste your time during the year with bio, take something that will help you get into 2nd year biomed..something like programming or AutoCAD. Getting into 2nd year elec &biomed is competitive, so having a knowledge in the areas of programming or AutoCAD will definitely help you out!
Also, getting into eng at mcmaster requires you to take the normal courses listed on the website. If bio is not there, then it's not a prerequisite to anything whether in first or second year. As i said, lots of students change their mind in first year eng, so you should be fine without it. Now if you really want, just take it this summer after finishing high school.

Oh alright. Thanks starfish and jim1, it makes more sense now. I have not taken ICS3U (Grade 11 Computer Science), I am considering asking for a pre-requisite waive and take ICS4U in grade 12 to learn about programming to provide me with the basics going into engineering. However, in the case that I do not take computer programming, how hard would it be for me to learn programming in university? I take interest in my math and physics courses. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by J.Clouseau

Oh alright. Thanks starfish and jim1, it makes more sense now. I have not taken ICS3U (Grade 11 Computer Science), I am considering asking for a pre-requisite waive and take ICS4U in grade 12 to learn about programming to provide me with the basics going into engineering. However, in the case that I do not take computer programming, how hard would it be for me to learn programming in university? I take interest in my math and physics courses. Thanks again!

Well, the programming language that you use in first year eng is "Python", it's not a very complicated language, yet many people fail/drop it and take it in the summer. You already have lots of courses each term and you don't have all the time to learn it. I mean, you have other courses to worry about. I am not saying it's not possible to learn it having other courses, but it's gonna take you a while to get the hang of it. You can't learn programming by reading the book or watching tutorial videos on the internet. These things definitely help, but you need to program a lot to get used to it and be able to do well in the course.

If you have programming experience from high school, you are gonna spend less time on it during first year and can spend your time on other courses/assignments.

Originally Posted by J.Clouseau

Oh alright. Thanks starfish and jim1, it makes more sense now. I have not taken ICS3U (Grade 11 Computer Science), I am considering asking for a pre-requisite waive and take ICS4U in grade 12 to learn about programming to provide me with the basics going into engineering. However, in the case that I do not take computer programming, how hard would it be for me to learn programming in university? I take interest in my math and physics courses. Thanks again!

You really don't need any high school programming to succeed in 1D04, as jim1 said Python is a really really simple language. The course assumes that you have no prior programming experience and teaches you from the ground up

Yeah, I've thought exactly that. Even if I learn a different language in high school, it'll be a lot more easier for me to pick up the stuff when I do it in university right? I'm slowly teaching myself the basics of programming in Python so hopefully I can be okay. Also, how do you like engineering? (If you are in it).

EDIT: Would it be better to just learn the basics of programming in Python than to take Comp sci in high school? I am not positive how well I'd do in the grade 12 course without taking the grade 11. I am committed to work hard when I get there though.

Originally Posted by J.Clouseau

Yeah, I've thought exactly that. Even if I learn a different language in high school, it'll be a lot more easier for me to pick up the stuff when I do it in university right? I'm slowly teaching myself the basics of programming in Python so hopefully I can be okay. Also, how do you like engineering? (If you are in it).

Having a knowledge of programming will definitely help you out; regardless of the language. Yes i am in engineering and i love it. It's a lot of work, but since the material is interesting i am always looking forward to learning the "next topic".

I know your still in high school, but try to learn "time management", you need it for engineering! Know when to study and when to take a break and never ever cram for a midterm! Getting behind in engineering is easy, but the trick is to manage your time so you can catch up quickly.

Originally Posted by J.Clouseau

EDIT: Would it be better to just learn the basics of programming in Python than to take Comp sci in high school? I am not positive how well I'd do in the grade 12 course without taking the grade 11. I am committed to work hard when I get there though.

I wanted to edit my post but i couldn't. Anyways..I never took comp sci/comp eng in high school so i wouldn't really know. If you can learn the basics on your own, then go for it! Try to download the program itself and practice a bit.

I regret not taking like something programming or AutoCAD in high school :/ My friends who took these courses in high school definitely benefited from it. A friend of mine took a course in high school where they used the same program as we did in 1c03 and got a 12 in it! He didn't spend a lot of time on it, instead he spent his time studying for the other courses. I am not saying that it's not possible to get a 12 in these courses without prior knowledge, but having that knowledge from high school is a big bonus

I am glad to see your already learning some programming on your own! Keep at it and good luck with everything

Oh okay, thank you very much! Good luck on your midterms .

Biomed eng here:
Grade 12 Bio is not a prereq. They assume if you are an engineer you can handle it without problem. However if you do highschool bio then you are doing a repeat review of course material. If you dont you are adding extra strain to an already difficult program .

As for programming, python is a very easy language and you should be able to teach it to yourself. Taking any sort of programming in highschool will help however, particularly for second year c/java programming courses.

Oh alright, thanks! How are you enjoying the electrical and biomedical engineering program qwerty91? Should I take biology regardless if I decide to do electrical and biomedical engineering or not? I might just for the heck of it and see how I like it. .