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Enough Student Apathy

 
Old 07-01-2009 at 08:41 PM   #1
Matt Wright
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Enough Student Apathy
Now is your chance. I'm tired of people complaining about things they don't like about McMaster. McMaster is an unbelievable school with a ton of potential.

The purpose of this thread is to offer up some things you would like changed, and I will get the ball rolling. The time is here for change, list anything you want to see (within reason), and we can start anew in September.

I would also like to offer a heart-felt welcome to all students into engineering 1, feel free to contact me if you have any concerns or questions, or even if you just wanna talk to somebody about life at Mac!
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Old 07-01-2009 at 09:26 PM   #2
huzaifa47
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Umm Sessionals being layed off, Arts research budgets being cut while Science budgets going up, award winning Arts prof's being not offered a new contract. Lack of communication venues between the Administration and students, we have little or no say in their decsicion and our opinion on it. Slightly improved communication with the MSU this year but it is still on a need to know and patronizing basis. That being translated into a good number of courses I wanted being cut or becoming ridiculously small so that most of the people even within that major wanting them are unable to do so, for example I wanted to concentrate on labour in economics(full even though I got in at 1AM, looking at the room for it, its probably a small class) and media in sociology(not offered). Now I have to wait till third year and HOPEFULLY the third year version/extension of it would still be offered the list actually goes on but I'll stop ranting.

There's alot more but as sincere as you are Matt and despite seeing your work regarding information gathering with Quarters I still think change is not a product of one or two determined people. It has to come from the top down in the way we treat students(not as a vote bank but as a valid source of rational information) and for them to know what's really going on and then offer constructive criticism. Sure there is alot negativity and just about everything the MSU does is criticized, but think deep down within yourselves why they do that: It is because they see the MSU as an inclusive society that is patronzing and far away from the consensus. We are sick of silly and ridiculous claims made by candidates(though I don't blame them at all) like they will reduce fees, reduce coursewares, build ramps(wth?), go green(since that's the latest fad), solve global warming, nuclear disarmament, save the starving kids and pandas and turtles while they are at it and all sorts of other stuff.
None of it actually ends up happening because to succesfully create and complete a project change one has to do extensive research, work hard mostly on your own or within your standing committte, do internal lobbying and get something passed within an assembly. Who are they kidding when they go up and make outlandish claims to attempt to impress voters? No one's impressed hence no one votes. A turnout of 12% and even less for SRA shows that. Student opinion should be valid no matter where you get it from:

Macinsiders actually is a great source for it(but recently a BOD member came out and said only the MSU website is "valid"), I mean who will take that Quarters survey up there seriously when a 10 year old script kiddie could distort it? Sure a number of people here behind their keyboards say stuff that sounds rude and negative, but that happens in online semantics. Instead of getting offended and dismissing him try and answer him constructively, without delving too much into John Stuart Mill here if you guys are doing things 100% with the best intentions you should be able to shoot down any negativity.
So is that guy in the behind row of your physics lecture complaining to his friend about MSU stuff, don't dismiss him as being just another complaining engineer(this isn't aimed at you).
In other words if all of you guys campaign about transparency and communication during elections, don't end up not doing it when you get elected.

I give you guys credit(well some of you) for being much better this year but the need to know basis and the lack of details need to change, there have been incidents in the recent past(Quarters and the Speaker Fiasco) where there has been unclear, patronizing and often contradictory information from BOD and SRA members. I recently found out after emailing the president and VP Admin about an idea for creating a volunteer VP Communications position(just like UWO) after my incredible experience with the western person for a project query. I found out that the MSU has full time people working on PR, really? I don't really see them anywhere; its SRA members posting and replying seemingly on their own accord. I mean no one visits the MSU website, and they won't for some reason. So its your Job to go out and seek them, not the other way round. They will never come to you, apathy is only solved by stimulation and generating interest, the most important customer is the one who comes to your shop for the second time not the first; Make him re-visit! (Eg: Constructive discussion on Insiders where their opinion is respected).

Also there are two types of SRA members, one who genuinely care about what they are doing and actually make efforts to engage students and look for initatives to take. The second is the one who are in the SRA for personal gain and to brush up their Resume and job prospects(or those who ended up there by accident; you know what I mean!), I have realized that after contacting every single one of them for my FYC survey and comparing their response and overall willingness to help. The ones I thought were least likely to help did turn out to be the ones ignoring my mails or replying with stereotypical unhelpful stuff.

As Rohan pointed out in some other thread there needs to be pressure from the top(caucus leaders and BOD) to somehow "force" and pressure every single SRA member to earn their privilege not enjoy it with apathy, its only a minority that is apparently willing to change stuff around here. They should get out and personally engage students from the ground up, not post random stuff on twitter and facebook and hope for someone to notice and articulate something constructive for them

There is alot more but I think the rest can be covered by other people.
Anyhow a good Initiative, I hope you get some positive feedback but most importantly what I would hypothetically like to see is more SRA members to have the same level of willingness to go out of their way and look at long term change.
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Last edited by huzaifa47 : 07-01-2009 at 09:38 PM.

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Old 07-01-2009 at 09:49 PM   #3
feonateresa
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Well, I'll tell you what bothers me from a relatively apathetic student. I'm not really involved, other than here at MacInsiders, but since I am paying for my education I have to be to some degree.

I absolutely, absolutely hate the frustration that every single one of us goes through when it comes to the course registration process. From SOLAR and it's incompetence, to courses only having one section due to layoffs, to electives essentially becoming a hot commodity because they're so unavailable. Then we're forced to take electives that we don't even like, either to have a full course load or whatever, and we have to pay a pretty penny for them.

I don't like that no one cares about Social Sciences, Humanities and Arts. They just don't. I think a lot of it stems from stupid stereotypes and condescending behaviour that says that the students in these faculties won't amount to anything special, so why give them money? This results in courses not being offered, courses taken out altogether. It's ridiculous. We have such a limited variety to choose from and it's only getting smaller. I don't know if it's a coincidence either that the Arts buildings are ghetto compared to the ones across campus, but that's probably nothing haha.

I hate that professors are being let go. It's incredibly depressing when you think about it. There are some really talented and involved professors who really engage their students, and then just like that they're gone. I'm sure there are a million reasons why they're being let go, but this is what gets on my nerves.

The MSU doesn't really reach out to the students much I don't think. There's the Silhouette which most people probably read to get a little game of Sudoku in between classes. I think the most recent example is this Quarters naming business. Who the hell knows about it outside of MacInsiders, MSU and the SRA? Like nobody. However, students are pretty apathetic, I agree. Hardly any of us votes in our country's affairs, so why care about their student government? Don't know, but they probably should a little bit more - especially with all these frustrations and layoffs.
Old 07-01-2009 at 09:56 PM   #4
Marlowe
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Before I had read Huzaifa's post I really thought Mac was doing a good job- and to be honest, I still do. My experiences have been nothing but positive so far, although that might change once I actually have to deal with the smaller class sizes of upper years.

The biggest thing I would like to see is increased transparency with the MSU and SRA. Not because I regard them as some secretive board of shadowy figures, but because I have no idea what it is that they actually do. I could not name one thing that the MSU and SRA did during my first year, and many others are in the same boat.

Also a better system than MUGSI and SOLAR would help. I understand that it doesn't make sense to invest too much in a system that only gets large use at one point in the year, but it couldn't be too hard to add some extra server space during course selection times when they know they'll have a high volume of users.

But overall, I love the fact that someone finally stood up to the haters. I could not see myself going to a better school than McMaster, I love it here.
Old 07-01-2009 at 10:12 PM   #5
huzaifa47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Marlowe View Post
Before I had read Huzaifa's post I really thought Mac was doing a good job- and to be honest, I still do. My experiences have been nothing but positive so far, although that might change once I actually have to deal with the smaller class sizes of upper years.

Well to sum up what Andrew and Fiona said: "But more importantly we need to get beyond this notion that the Liberal arts are being hit harder then any other discipline. I dare venture to say that very few in this discipline itself(let alone those within another) see its potential. So to say that we are being hit hardest and expect it to received as anything but justified is unlikely. There is no language within the culture currently to translate the value. We are transdisciplinary, there is only one kind of knowledge. The sooner we realize that we are too similar and too different to compare, stepping away from this dichotomous thinking, then the closer we come to actually defending this discipline. This isn't just the liberal arts. I firmly believe that these events are part of a much larger flow that affects us all."
"Besides that, the strength and vibrancy of any one program at the university contribute to those of all the other programs. The major canadian universities have committed themselves to being comprehensive institutions for a very good reason; dialogue between the different disciplines, and exposure to multiple distinct ways of thinking are beneficial." (Comments by David & Danielle on facebook)
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Last edited by huzaifa47 : 07-01-2009 at 11:29 PM.
Old 07-02-2009 at 12:46 AM   #6
Marlowe
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I'm not sure that's quite what I was trying to say, since I didn't myself mention the Liberal Arts, and am actually in a Science program. I just assumed that the smaller classes in upper years were harder to get into for everybody.

I also need to redact one of my previous complaints- it turns out there is actually a very thorough breakdown of how the MSU, and the University, spends its money.

http://www.msumcmaster.ca/faqs/overv.../financial.htm

I may not support a lot of what they are doing, but at least they're telling me what they are wasting my money on...

I wonder what other info is out there that I was just too lazy to look for.
Old 07-02-2009 at 01:00 AM   #7
PTGregD
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Honestly, if SOLAR was fixed to a) handle more people and b) have a waitlist for courses, 99% of the complaining about McMaster would be gone. Then all we would have left to complain about would be Quarters.
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Old 07-02-2009 at 01:02 AM   #8
feonateresa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Marlowe View Post
I may not support a lot of what they are doing, but at least they're telling me what they are wasting my money on...

I wonder what other info is out there that I was just too lazy to look for.
Well, maybe that's the problem the university has, more specifically the relationship between students and organizations like MSU and SRA.

There's just no way for everything to work out so that at least some of everybody's interests are met, because we just don't know enough about eachother. In order for a team, or an organization to function, everyone needs to understand each other's responsibilities so that they can work together and contribute to that final goal.

It's tough on anybody's part, but I'm sure there's some way that the MSU can get students more interested.
Old 07-02-2009 at 01:02 AM   #9
feonateresa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTGregD View Post
Honestly, if SOLAR was fixed to a) handle more people and b) have a waitlist for courses, 99% of the complaining about McMaster would be gone. Then all we would have left to complain about would be Quarters.
Hell, you'd never hear a word from me again. I'd just eat at Commons. :]
Old 07-02-2009 at 01:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feonateresa View Post
Hell, you'd never hear a word from me again. I'd just eat at Commons. :]
Haha, me too. That's where I've eaten until now anyways.
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Old 07-02-2009 at 01:16 AM   #11
casey.park
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I'm the House Leader of the SRA and one of my jobs is to be the chief spokesperson for the Assembly that makes these decisions regarding your Students Union.

Upon being elected, I've promised the SRA (my boss) and through them, students that my major area of focus this year is to put in plain language for students what projects and accomplishments are happening on and off the Assembly floor.

In the starkest language possible, this means that if you want to know what's happening from the SRA, you will know by simply going to the MSU website and making a couple of clicks. The SRA Blog is being updated frequently and starting in the school year, Vishal and I will be doing a weekly insert in The Sil summarizing major motions for students under three contexts: What this means to undergraduate students at McMaster, Why the Assembly made this decision, and How will this be enacted. Also, instead of having SRA member office hours in a space that is rarely visited (MUSC 204), SRA members are going to seek you out weekly at places where students usually congregate. For example, if you're in Science, expect Science SRA members in the lobby of BSB.

While this might seem well-intentioned, I need your help. Email or Facebook me whenever you have a bone to pick, want some differences made in services, or want the MSU to advocate for something specific. Read the blog and comment on it and keep your eyes on the Sil during the school year. We can all sit on our collective asses or we can actually make this Students Union work for the students.

I want to meet you halfway.

Casey Park
McMaster Students Union
SRA House Leader
[email protected] master.ca
http://php.orbiscommunicatio ns.com/srablog/

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Old 07-02-2009 at 01:37 AM   #12
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Just work on the SOLAR problem. You solve that problem and everyone will shower you with hugs and kisses.
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Old 07-02-2009 at 01:57 AM   #13
Marlowe
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Casey, its great that you're taking all these positive steps. I don't read the Sil, but I will be checking back to that blog regularly. I've already learned that we have a student radio station, which I didn't know existed throughout my first year.

I'm relatively sure that the MSU and SRA have no control over SOLAR, but I'm sure the university wouldn't say no if you offered to fund them getting a new system. That would be a much better use of funds then say... running a bar.

**hint hint, nudge nudge**
Old 07-02-2009 at 09:38 AM   #14
Matt Wright
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The MUGSI/SOLAR issue is one that comes up every year, and it will re-directed to the University Affairs commissioner.

The other issues we all face such as expensive textbooks, professors, and all other post-secondary education (PSE) related are lobbied through OUSA and CASA. These two abbreviations are buzzwords within the MSU... so feel free to use them at your disposal. They are the two federal and provincial lobbying groups which we use as a great asset towards making McMaster a better school for everyone.

Here are the links:
http://www.ousa.ca/
http://www.casa.ca/

Alongside the proposed office hours for EVERY SRA member, there will also be a more frequent update to the MSU website and hopefully a more relaxed, open door policy if students just want to stop by and chat.
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Old 07-02-2009 at 10:56 AM   #15
lorend
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Although this is perhaps directed towards Casey alone (and Pauline/the webmaster), provide a link or an clickable image to the SRA blog on the MSU homepage. From what I've learned about student behaviours through MacInsiders and Compass, things need to be incredibly easy to access, and that unfortunately doesn't mean changing pages several times to find something. Students want everything as soon as they visit a page.

Post all of the SRA meeting dates on the MSU calendar. The calender serves also provides an update on the main page for 'The Scoop' image on the left-hand side of the main page. Then MacInsiders can post it on our calender.

Make sure that when someone enters the SRA office, they're not ignored. Although this is beef I had with last year's SRA and not necessarily relevant to this one, if someone enters the SRA office constituents should not turn away because they're busy on their laptop frantically completing an assignment.

Have the SRA seek out students. Although having office hours is a good thing, not all students are able or comfortable enough to go in and talk to SRA members. I know with myself I never was until I actually knew a few members of the SRA.

Utilize other services on Campus to get your messages/points across. This includes, but is not limited to Poster Monkeys, Compass, Maroons and the Underground. They serve a purpose to the MSU as a whole and not just students.

Also, Matt, thanks for posting this. I have been toying with the idea myself for a few weeks as well.
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