First thanks for posting this thread, I didn't even know there was a referendum attached to the SRA elections.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

However people who will come in next year won't get a choice, they'll be forced into it. I don't think we should have the ability to force others to donate to one particular charity.

New people come in every year and have to pay fees they didn't agree to that we already have in place, I don't see how that makes a difference.

That said I think any fees that are not directly related to McMaster and our education should be optional. People already pay a lot of money for tuition and then there's another $800 added on in fees. I feel like people shouldn't be forced to donate to this, that and the other thing b/c they choose to come to an educational institute. Granted a lot of people probably would choose to opt out of any fees they could if given the option, but that should be their right.

I think this sounds like a great organization and I wouldn't mind donating an extra 35 cents to it, and other fees like the refugee one if they were opt out but I don't think it should be forced upon the whole student body since it isn't really directly related to McMaster and our education.

I do see the point above about this being to send a student(s) to help out but still I think fund raising would be a better option. People who really believe in it would give more than 35 cents if you got a good fund raiser going.

The problem with fundraisers is they really can't make that much money unless you're REALLY going at it, and as we're all students... we can't. There's ~18,000 undergrads, which equals to ~$6300 for EWB should the referendum pass. It probably doesn't seem like that much, but if you've ever tried to get that much money for free out of people... it's difficult. I'm sure we've all seen the fundraisers on campus and subsequently walked past them. I've seen everyone do it (we tried putting out a change jar one time and got... $3).

If people were really dedicated, that much money could be raised, but what do you suggest students do? Bake sales? They don't work that well. Silent auction? What can students auction off? It's entirely possible that someone can raise x amount of money, but think about it. We're all students (I reiterate that a lot), and the organizations that can raise lots and lots of money are... organizations with dedicated volunteers, and sometimes paid positions, just to organize those things. I'm speaking from solar car experience where we needed to somehow attain much more money than I imagine EWB needs, but it still applies.

I urge everyone who opposes fees like this to actually go out to what the money goes to and figure out what exactly is happening with your money. Because, chances are the money is being put to very good use, and a lot of things wouldn't be possible without that 35 cents, or that dollar, or that $1.37.

Originally Posted by mlangille

It's great to see so much discussion on this, many of you ask why should I support this organization via student fees and not another is because the fee is not going to a "random or sketchy project" within EWB.

It is going towards sending a STUDENT overseas to volunteer in a development project and as previously stated, sharing what you learned with Mac and the community is not a good idea but a duty of the JF during their debreifing year.

Without the fee our means of sending the JF are via fundraising for the most part, if for any reason fundraising is unsuccessful in some years the JF would not be able to go- again it is a student opportunity. Therefore both students looking to seek the opportunity to act as global citizens and the EWB organization would suffer as a whole due to it.

If you don't think 35 cents is worth it then vote "no", that is why it's in a referendum to get students to vote and its up to them to do so.

So in short I know the concept of "forced charity" is something that does not resonate well with many however this extends beyond that concept because its a student opportunity to aid a charitable cause

But there are tonnes of opportunities for people to volunteer abroad and help people. And the fact is that in most cases, those who wish to do so have to pay their own way. I know it sucks that people have to pay to help others, but the experience is what drives people to do it anyway. What makes EWB more important than any of the other organizations that let students volunteer abroad that are reliant on fundraising?

I don't mean to hound on you or anything, I just really dislike student fees, and the way that students have so little ability to reduce them.

Originally Posted by sew12

New people come in every year and have to pay fees they didn't agree to that we already have in place, I don't see how that makes a difference.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. My point about incoming students not getting a say was more focused on the fact that once these fees are established they tend to be sticky- there isn't really a chance of these disappearing once they're added to our fees. We're making decisions on behalf of future students, which just sucks for them. I know there isn't a good way around this, but I just don't think that incoming students should have to pay for an issue they had no say in.

I don't oppose this fee on the basis of what it goes towards, I just disagree with imposing fees on everyone, they should have the freedom not to donate to causes that aren't related to the University/their education. People didn't choose to come to a Post-Secondary institution to donate money to a bunch of causes. It would be nice if more people supported important/beneficial causes but they shouldn't be forced to.

Hi Andrew,
That's a fair question.
The EWB approach aims to build sustainable solutions that are based on enhancing peoples' capacity to problem-solve. This means that EWB encourages local communities' ownership over their own projects and ensures that they have independence over them. As part of this aim for sustainability, the volunteer placement is long-term and involves both preparation based upon previous Junior Fellows' experiences and a long period of follow-up where the volunteers pass on their knowledge to both the EWB and public communities. At McMaster, we have a very direct opportunity to learn from the Junior Fellows through workshops, presentations, and talks.

You are absolutely right that the experience drives our volunteers, and it is that same experience that drives them to share what they have learned from their placements with the rest of McMaster when they return.

I hope I haven't been too vague. I could give you some more information on specific projects, if you'd like.

Well, I don't think you were vague in your description. I think you gave a wonderful description of why EWB is a great organization. I'm still not sure how it benefits the average student though (keeping in mind that most students don't attend workshops or presentations), or why EWB is so much better than any of the other volunteer abroad programs.

I was trying to think of an appropriate analogy to student fees, and the best I could think of was taxes. We all have to pay taxes to the government so that it can keep running. Sure, we might not want to support the things we don't use, but it's what keeps it all afloat. Kind of like the gym fee that we have - I don't use the gym, but it's a benefit to so many people that I don't mind paying it.

Also, the student centre fee: students back decided that McMaster should have a student centre and put in the fee. Those students would never see/use the student centre unless they came back to visit, but the fee gave us a student centre for us to use.

Kind of like Ash (the MSU presidential candidate) proposed with his endowment fund. It doesn't benefit everyone, but it could benefit you if you put yourself out there to WANT to benefit from it, and it will benefit future McMaster students.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm kinda sleepy.

The EWB people are involved in developing curriculum. Every first year engineer goes through a workshop about thinking globally with their engineering designs(I had it this semester, led by a previous overseas volunteer). They don't just work with the engineering classes, they are involved in peace studies classes and a few other. These are things that directly affect the students and the curriculum.

There are also NUMEROUS workshops about a large range of topics that reinforce/introduce really valuable skills. All put on for free by EWB. The .35 cents doesn't go to these though, it goes to sending volunteers overseas.

As I mentioned before, your involvement as an overseas volunteer doesn't end when you get back to Canada. They act as advisers, guest speakers, presenters, and valuable resources to McMaster. The good they do when abroad is one thing, but I am not touching on that here. Really I am focusing on what we benefit from as students from sending the volunteers overseas. This isnt like simply donating to a charity. If you donate to peta they don't provide you with a service or benefit your community, the EWB volunteer on the other hand does.


And please, don't get throw by the name. EWB is not about engineers. I actually dont understand why they didnt change the name years ago when they moved away from focusing on Engineering stuff. EWB needs people from every faculty to make things work.

So EWB is all about engineers?

• If you want teaching experience and working with kids, join up with the School Outreach side of EWB.
• If you want more experience with higher level education, join the Curriculum Enhancement team to lead workshops in university classes and develop content for the curriculum.
• If you want to get practical experience with Finances, join the financial team.
• If you want to put to practice the things you have learned about marketing and advertising, join the recruitment and visibility team.
• If you want to apply the things you learn in polisci about Canadian and international politics, join the advocacy team and engage politicians.

EWB is just a name, it isnt about engineering, it is about working against needless extreme human suffering. The EWB volunteer gets a summer's worth of experience to bring back to the school and disseminate.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

Well, I don't think you were vague in your description. I think you gave a wonderful description of why EWB is a great organization. I'm still not sure how it benefits the average student though (keeping in mind that most students don't attend workshops or presentations), or why EWB is so much better than any of the other volunteer abroad programs.

But following your train of thought, I can't think of a single student fee that benefits the average student (save the obvious ones...tuition etc). However, if we started succumbing to the demands of the few, well then we'd just descend into anarchy, amirite? (this is assuming you're part of the minority that opposes this)

I think the bottom line is that its 35 cents, its a good cause and its something that the majority of student will likely support regardless weather it "benefits" them.

Oh lordy lordy, I truly despise the "it's only 35 cents arguments."

So what if the next 100 causes just want 35 cents? What if they ask for 50 cents? 70 cents? It may just be a couple of cents each time, but that's exactly why people will keep coming back asking for more.

the fact that its only 35 cents is not "the" argument. the argument is what has been posited by the posts from the EWB. the fact that its only 35 cents means its an inoffensive fee that most people with the slightest desire to donate to this cause (or possibly those who are indifferent) will be willing to accept.

maybe the EWB could make a refund available for anyone opposed.

it's true that the "its only 0.35 cents" argument will be used quite frequently as to point out how truly inexpensive that is.

My previous posts have attempted to prject the message of providing students the opportunity to act as global citizens. Yes I am aware there are numerous other organizations students can do this with however EWBs approach seems much more sustainable and looks to yield *real* development results.

Also, yes students have other ways to do this if they fund it themselves however thse trips cost an upwards of $6000 and regardless of how hard some students may try, they are prevented from seizing this opportunity due to the financial constraints.

Also EWB is one of, if not the only program I am aware of that requires such a dedication and commitment in the full 18 month period (7 mnths preparation, 4 mnths overseas, 7 mnths debrief) from junior fellows.

So yes it is only 35 cents and yes it is a good cause but that shouldn't be the sole reason for voting either yes in favour or no opposed to the fee.

Originally Posted by waddlesworth

But following your train of thought, I can't think of a single student fee that benefits the average student (save the obvious ones...tuition etc). However, if we started succumbing to the demands of the few, well then we'd just descend into anarchy, amirite? (this is assuming you're part of the minority that opposes this)

I think the bottom line is that its 35 cents, its a good cause and its something that the majority of student will likely support regardless weather it "benefits" them.

Tuition isn't a student fee. Student fees are the $1000 or so dollars we pay in addition to tuition Some of it there is no way around: building fees, administration fees, etc.

Some of them are fees that arguably benefit the average student. The bus pass, the MSU fees, etc.

Others are fees that don't benefit the student, and should be removed. The CFMU fee would be an example of this. I don't know anyone who still listens to the radio, let alone a college station. Its an outdated feature, that should be removed.

I do oppose this measure, not because I'm worried about anarchy. I'm worried about tyranny of the majority, where 60% of the people can decide how everyone spends their money.

Lets just for example take the DVD referendum, and lets assume that the company was actually reputable and had a plan. If 55% of the students said they wanted an increase of 25 dollars so that we had a DVD service, would it have been fair to those others who didn't want to spend their money on DVDs?

Obviously its not a perfect comparison, but it illustrates my point. The students who would vote Yes should also be willing to donate that amount to a fund-raiser.

you guys dont like the 35cent thing? what about the ****ing athletic fee? I can't stand how I have pay for bros to do gym class, shit. asdfasfdasf

I would much rather shift it so that the entire DBAC is included in Pulse, and that the Athletics fees get grouped in with a membership. Pulse would cost more, but it wouldn't make students who don't use the gym pay for it.