We are all students and we all see the obstacles of eating on campus. The only way to get around these obstacles it to do something about it. Here is the link to McMaster University Hospitality Services: http://hospitality.mcmaster. ca/

Voice your opinions. If students do not let people know what is wrong, they won't know what to fix. University is one of the only places where you can implicitly cause immediate change to your surroundings; use this to your advantage. If enough people send in a polite request email for a 24/7 eatery on campus, they may look into it for the upcoming school year. Just some food for thought (pun completely intended).

Originally Posted by DannyV

I'm sure if there were more than a few students with these issues, hospitality would listen.

As is, it seems like it comes down to the gripes of a few people who can't handle being away from home and home cooked meals.

Heh, I'm more than willing to organize and bring the issues together.

As for the home cooked meals, for some people, the family dynamic is different, etc, and mealtime is a big thing for them. Some people get used to a certain way of life and while you do have to make the change, sometimes people find it hard to make the change really quickly or right away. Its a drastic change from home-cooked meals 7 days a week with your whole family around the table to eating microwaved pasta and overfried chicken in your res room on your own, you know what I mean?

If I may be so bold to offer some advice on this rather explosive disucssion - a great deal of rationale that both parties have provided for their cases stems from personal experience. Though it would be optimal to cater to every single student's individual needs at every hour of day, it simply isn't possible. And so, although I sympathize with your frustrations in being unable to purchase food at a late hour, you have to realize that just because you want food at that hour, not everyone wants the same thing.

That is not to say there is no legitimacy in your argument - there may in fact be a lot of students like yourselves who demonstrate a need for such a service. Although I personally do not need Commons (or any other food establishment) to be open at a late hour, if enough students demonstrate a need for it - then so be it, they should have it. What is more important right now for those who want such an establishment is this - supply evidence for this need. Take initiative and survey students and gauge their needs. As long as this initiative does not raise overall food prices for students, I'm sure that those who don't frequent Commons at 3a.m. still wouldn't mind allowing their peers to do so.

As an IRC member has already pointed out in this thread, an advocacy group already exists on campus for issues like this - the Student Dining Committee. They have experience in dealing with such matters and could be an excellent resource for those of you trying to voice your opinions to Hospitality Services.

To the "use your meal plan money when stuff is open" argument, I think the original intent of this thread was to complain that EVERYTHING closed at 8 PM on Good Friday. That's a bit unreasonable when it's a holiday and other places are generally closed. Not everyone has a fridge, and I personally don't trust my res kitchen/fridge.

Normal hours for normal school days are fine, in my opinion... but when you have 24 hour studying available in the library, you should maybe consider giving those people something to eat.

Originally Posted by batman

Again, you are ignoring the point many are making. Most people don't want to go get that cheap meal off-campus. Another thing is personality wise, some people are keen to explore go around town and find cheap meals, etc, but not everyone is, just because of their own personal preferneces. .

Sorry, but when people have given them a number of suggestions on how to fix their problems and the response they get is pretty much "I'm too lazy/busy to walk 5-10 minutes for off-campus food". I don't have sympathy for them.

Not everyone has a fridge, and I personally don't trust my res kitchen/fridge.

For future reference, I would advise that you pick up non-perishables. PB, Bread, and Fruit (Apples & Bananas) don't go bad if you leave them in your room. They're great when I'm too lazy to go to the grocery store.

Originally Posted by jesus

Sorry, but when people have given them a number of suggestions on how to fix their problems and the response they get is pretty much "I'm too lazy/busy to walk 5-10 minutes for off-campus food". I don't have sympathy for them.

I think to say its 5-10 minutes is unrealistic.
Say I want to get food from Montfort right? It takes you 10 minutes to walk there, from Brandon Hall for example. Then you wait/pay for your food for 5 minutes, then you walk back, another 10 minutes. So you've spent 25-30 minutes. That being said, its still not an obscene amount of time, but its not tiny either.

I understand your point, initiative has to be taken by the person, rather than just complaining about it.

I guess I should've stated my point of reference and speed of walking. I can get to Pita Pit in about 5 minutes from the student centre; however, I'm a bit of a speed walker. But from another perspective, there are times when I've been in the student centre or Keyes for lunch and it takes about 20-30 minutes just to get food because of the massive lines.

In the end it all evens out when you factor in the walk vs. line-ups. Besides, 25 to 30 minutes isn't a huge amount of time - it's a good break from study and good exercise. This is coming from someone who is "busy" with volunteering, school, ECs, etc. I live 20-25 minutes from school (walking) and still have time to spare.

Originally Posted by jesus

I guess I should've stated my point of reference and speed of walking. I can get to Pita Pit in about 5 minutes from the student centre; however, I'm a bit of a speed walker. But from another perspective, there are times when I've been in the student centre or Keyes for lunch and it takes about 20-30 minutes just to get food because of the massive lines.

In the end it all evens out when you factor in the walk vs. line-ups. Besides, 25 to 30 minutes isn't a huge amount of time - it's a good break from study and good exercise. This is coming from someone who is "busy" with volunteering, school, ECs, etc. I live 20-25 minutes from school (walking) and still have time to spare.

Yeah, 20-25 minutes isn't a lot, and personally, I take 30 minute breaks from studying to go stand in line at the student center for food. LOL. But anyways, I think, a lot of people think they are busier than they are, which is why they say they can't spare the 20 minutes.

Anyways, I think someone brought up a point, if theres 24 hour library, there should be 24 hour food, I'm paraphrasing, but anyways, doesn't that go against the whole food in the library thing. But then again, thats a whole new can of worms. Personally, I think if there were some vending machines in Mills for examples, it wouldn't be a bad thing.

Another side of the coin to take into account is staffing and food quality. If you have a place open 24 hours a day, there would have to be volumes of sales that would make it reasonable to stay open. There are probably only a dozen people who will eat between 3am and 7am, so it would not be economically feasible to remain open.

Another problem I forsee is the freshness of food being cooked at that hour. Because the kitchens are cleaned once they are closed for the night, you would either have to staff until 4am, or ensure that all food is prepared on a per-order basis. This would not only increase costs, but also, would take more time to be prepared. Your best bet is honestly to buy food and keep it in your res room, order food from off-campus, or adjust your eating habits to fit your study schedule. The school provides a ton of on-campus eateries during "normal" school hours, and wanting them to remain open for all us nocturnal students is a bit unreasonable if there isn't a large general consensus or a large volume of projected sales.

Yes, but the food stalls just close too darn early and theres just about no alternative if you're, lets say, studying in the student centre!

Originally Posted by Matt Wright

Another side of the coin to take into account is staffing and food quality. If you have a place open 24 hours a day, there would have to be volumes of sales that would make it reasonable to stay open. There are probably only a dozen people who will eat between 3am and 7am, so it would not be economically feasible to remain open.

Another problem I forsee is the freshness of food being cooked at that hour. Because the kitchens are cleaned once they are closed for the night, you would either have to staff until 4am, or ensure that all food is prepared on a per-order basis. This would not only increase costs, but also, would take more time to be prepared. Your best bet is honestly to buy food and keep it in your res room, order food from off-campus, or adjust your eating habits to fit your study schedule. The school provides a ton of on-campus eateries during "normal" school hours, and wanting them to remain open for all us nocturnal students is a bit unreasonable if there isn't a large general consensus or a large volume of projected sales.

Exactly my views regarding this issue, any decision made by hospitality goes through a cost benefit analysis. A 24 hour service would I presume only service the people in residence(First years mostly), and Commons would possibly be the only location where it would be feasible to have late hours(due to its close proximity to residences). The question here would be whether there is enough demand to support paying overtime(I think working after 12am pays higher wages, and quite possibly even goes against Union laws) and operate Commons.

It would mostly be the first years who benefit, since upper years live off campus and would find off campus places equally reachable. Hence would the upper years want money diverted for our wants?

I don't think a 24 hour service is feasible, unless someone can make the FYEC office or a MSU survey include opinion section regarding this as well as carry out a "willingness to pay" assessment for a 24 hour service(Economic decision-making assessment).

A good possible solution could be to install a vending machine type of fridge in MUSC and Commons. It could have the items sold in the on-the-go counters(Sandwiches, Wraps etc), that would certainly be feasible.

As far as having a vending machine in Mills goes, I don't think they "officially" allow food, even though there is a snack/drink machine in the learning commons.

I do see both sides of the argument but there are too many speculations in this thread. We won't know why such a service does not exist unless we hear it from Hospitality Services. I already sent them an email last night so I am just waiting for an email back from them, hopefully on Tuesday. If such a service is not possible, students need to know the reason behind that. Though I stumbled upon this last night while researching about the issue (taken directly from Hospitality Services' website):

Q: Can't you keep Commons Marketplace open later?

A: Commons is open until 12 am daily, but our volume of sales does not support the extra labour cost that we would incur to stay open later than that. To maintain a healthy lifestyle, especially during the academic year, we encourage eating balanced meals on time during the day.

Based on that, we basically have to prove that such a service would be essential and successful since extra labour costs would have to be incurred.I looked at food service at other universities and a number of them have a 24/7 Tim Hortons. Queen's University has a food service that runs until about 1:30 am. I'll post an update once I receive an email back from Hospitality. Once we find out the details, we can start looking at ways of proving that such a service would be benificial to students.

Just a quick FYI in terms of Mills, they do indeed allow food these days and there was some talk awhile ago of building a café inside.

But I'll leave you guys to the debate/discussion..

Originally Posted by KaesoPublius

Just a quick FYI in terms of Mills, they do indeed allow food these days and there was some talk awhile ago of building a café inside.

But I'll leave you guys to the debate/discussion..

Thanks for the clarification! There actually is a sign near my study spot that says No Eating or "Rollerblading" inside the library(ROTFL) so I presumed it was one of the Phil cases of Legally wrong: Morally Correct situations(Like Driving on the left side of the road etc).