Originally Posted by tyrant

maybe im being sensitive, because while it wasn't racist (definitely wasn't intended that way imo) I think it was uncalled for, the poster could just have easily said "the guy" instead of "the somalian guy", I think it's a problem because it associates sneaky behaviour with somalians.

I did not mean for this. Again I apologize for any stereotypes. This is starting to get blown out of proportion.

Originally Posted by husayn12

Way to start a flame war with the personal attacks.

I never said the intent of the poster was to discredit or bring down Somalians, all I was trying to say was that in my opinion mentioning race does more harm then good ... in fact I see no good coming from it. "If reading something about ONE Somalian guy makes you think that person is racist" ... Clearly you didn't read my post thoroughly ... I never said the poster was racist ... It was you that jumped to that conclusion ... Maybe it's you that harbours racist thoughts (I say this in jest if you can't tell).

Forgive me if I'm cynical enough to think that mentioning a person's race after outlining a (supposedly) criminal act will enhance stereotypes ... clearly there is no historical evidence for this /sarcasm/.

1. This is not a flame war.
2. What you implied is not clear from your original post but you definitely felt the need to point out the face that they mentioned the race of the person because you felt stereotypes are a bad thing. Sure, the OP is pointing out the race but I don't see it as stereotyping and I agree that there are some people that might.

3. I don't disagree that I harbour racist thoughts at all. It's highly mood-dependent though.

Originally Posted by husayn12

I 100% agree that in a perfect world mentioning people's races would not be a problem. My only concern is that in this day and age, mentioning people's races after saying that the person in question created a crime will (probably) enhance stereotypes, and as such maybe we should avoid doing that. Maybe I'm being a cynic ... but hopefully I'm just a realist ...

You see, my concern is stemming from the everyday media. I can for a fact say that when for example a murder happens, if the murderer is Caucasian, the media does not say that a 'white murderer' or a 'Caucasian murderer' committed the crime. However, when the murderer is Muslim for example, too often the head title on new's articles is 'Muslim male murders ...'. What I was just pointing out is that in both cases, the nationality/religious affiliation does nothing to enhance the article, and in much the same way, saying the card holder was Somalian did not enhance the anecdote.

Most news articles I've read point out the race of the person. African, Caucasian, East Asian, European, Indian, whichever. It is necessary sometimes to point that out in the news.

Religion affiliation, however, matters in some crimes...especially to understand the use/misuse of said religion.

So does the country, to understand the potential background of the person's mindset.

Example: Children of war in Africa.

As with most things, it doesn't apply to all instances.

Originally Posted by manap3001

you come from a country where racial discrimination and inbreeding are the norm

If this was for me, it's true. However, try to not post stuff like this on MI, we're in Canada dude.

Originally Posted by tyrant

maybe im being sensitive, because while it wasn't racist (definitely wasn't intended that way imo) I think it was uncalled for, the poster could just have easily said "the guy" instead of "the somalian guy", I think it's a problem because it associates sneaky behaviour with somalians.

I should think it's the one doing the "sneaky thing" that's associating sneaky behavior with his race.

What people are forgetting is, stereotypes exist for a reason (not necessarily saying it's a good one). It isn't like one race deliberately ganged up on another and created these "fake" behaviours by which to identify this race. Stereotypes exist because a large number of people within that group have exhibited some behaviour (whether positive or negative).

Whether or not it's right to associate a stereotype with _an individual_ is one thing...but pointing out the guy was Somalian? Really, is that the problem here? I think you should be more appalled at the one who's actually _doing_ the sneaky behaviour.

Originally Posted by Incognitus

I should think it's the one doing the "sneaky thing" that's associating sneaky behavior with his race.

What people are forgetting is, stereotypes exist for a reason (not necessarily saying it's a good one). It isn't like one race deliberately ganged up on another and created these "fake" behaviours by which to identify this race. Stereotypes exist because a large number of people within that group have exhibited some behaviour (whether positive or negative).

Whether or not it's right to associate a stereotype with _an individual_ is one thing...but pointing out the guy was Somalian? Really, is that the problem here? I think you should be more appalled at the one who's actually _doing_ the sneaky behaviour.

actually no, not ALL stereotypes exist because a group exhibits the behavious, some are baseless facts and even more are just propaganda(ie. certain ethnic groups and ***** size).

The part that I bolded, that IS exactly what happened in some cases.

and even if there is some truth, I personally think its really unfair and disgusting to paint everyone with the same brush, what you need to do is step into that persons shoes and think how bad you just made them feel over something they have no control over.

Originally Posted by AmyLia

I don't know about this...when they show you some guy that they're trying to catch on TV, they DO mention if he's Caucasian...
And I disagree about the fact that his race wasn't relevant in this anecdote. Do you take the GO bus often? Have you ever seen a Caucasian person try to get away with ticket fraud?
I'm not trying to blame a certain group of people, but isn't it at all possible that some types of behaviour may be more prevalent amongst certain groups? If the country that one comes from is corrupt, chances are that for a while after coming here, those people will act in the same manner as they would've at home. Until they either get a slap on the wrist or realize how silly it is.
Again, I'm not trying to be mean, but we shouldn't deny a truth just because it's hard to hear.

what you suggest here is racist/white supremacist

@AmyLia shame on you. that post is so rude and racist. you are such a white supremacist.

Originally Posted by sinthusized

what you suggest here is racist/white supremacist

It sounds like foreigners are just bad at cheating bus fares. White people are pro at committing this fraud. I spent all last summer honing my 'pretending like my transfer is still valid' skill.

Originally Posted by Afzal

1. This is not a flame war.
2. What you implied is not clear from your original post but you definitely felt the need to point out the face that they mentioned the race of the person because you felt stereotypes are a bad thing. Sure, the OP is pointing out the race but I don't see it as stereotyping and I agree that there are some people that might.

3. I don't disagree that I harbour racist thoughts at all. It's highly mood-dependent though.



Most news articles I've read point out the race of the person. African, Caucasian, East Asian, European, Indian, whichever. It is necessary sometimes to point that out in the news.

Religion affiliation, however, matters in some crimes...especially to understand the use/misuse of said religion.

So does the country, to understand the potential background of the person's mindset.

Example: Children of war in Africa.

As with most things, it doesn't apply to all instances.

1) Sorry if my first post wasn't clear ... that was why I posted again to clarify what I originally meant ...

2) My whole point was that in many cases it is unnecessary to highlight a person's religion/race. Your whole rhetoric about how race/religion is sometimes useful is valid ... but completely unrelated to what we are talking about ... I am only talking about cases where race/religion has no bearing on the actions in question ... If you take the time to read this, please explain to me how it is useful to outline the riders nationality.

On a side note, @Infinity I hope you don't take these posts as a personal attack towards you. You have already stated that racism was not your intention (and I never believed it to be so to begin with) ... I think this discussion has shifted away from your original post to a more theoretical discussion. As such, I hope you don't feel bad as this discussion progresses.

Originally Posted by husayn12

1) Sorry if my first post wasn't clear ... that was why I posted again to clarify what I originally meant ...

2) My whole point was that in many cases it is unnecessary to highlight a person's religion/race. Your whole rhetoric about how race/religion is sometimes useful is valid ... but completely unrelated to what we are talking about ... I am only talking about cases where race/religion has no bearing on the actions in question ... If you take the time to read this, please explain to me how it is useful to outline the riders nationality.

Statistics.

/idon'tknowhowmanychar

If you use the PRESTO card to pay, they will know where you got off because you have to scan the card twice, when you get on and when you get off.

Originally Posted by Incognitus

What people are forgetting is, stereotypes exist for a reason (not necessarily saying it's a good one). It isn't like one race deliberately ganged up on another and created these "fake" behaviours by which to identify this race. Stereotypes exist because a large number of people within that group have exhibited some behaviour (whether positive or negative).

...clearly you know little to nothing about the psychology of prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. Where've you draw these ideas from? Your narrow personal experience of 17/18 years?

There are a lot of studies on prejudice that are immediately available to you, done by people who've studied it extensively for years. Go read up on those, they should change your perspective.

Originally Posted by AmyLia

I don't know about this...when they show you some guy that they're trying to catch on TV, they DO mention if he's Caucasian...
And I disagree about the fact that his race wasn't relevant in this anecdote. Do you take the GO bus often? Have you ever seen a Caucasian person try to get away with ticket fraud?
I'm not trying to blame a certain group of people, but isn't it at all possible that some types of behaviour may be more prevalent amongst certain groups? If the country that one comes from is corrupt, chances are that for a while after coming here, those people will act in the same manner as they would've at home. Until they either get a slap on the wrist or realize how silly it is.
Again, I'm not trying to be mean, but we shouldn't deny a truth just because it's hard to hear.

The bolded part made all the difference in that post. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't think it through and went with an example some might consider negative.
The rest is probable.

Originally Posted by sinthusized

what you suggest here is racist/white supremacist

Originally Posted by L'Étoile

@AmyLia shame on you. that post is so rude and racist. you are such a white supremacist.

Come on people, it's not rude to say the truth. Some behaviours are prevalent in some places and people sometimes bring that behaviour to other places. That's how cultures evolve. The nature and morality of said behaviour is irrelevant here.

My God... Amy lia you are one ignorant bi tch