of the health sci students that do get into medical school, where are they usually accepted? I have heard that U of T medical school accepts a lot of health sci (and maybe Mac???)

Based on anecdotal evidence 40% go to Mac, 40% at Toronto, and 10% at Ottawa, 5% at Queens, and 5% OOP (mostly UBC).

so no one goes to western?

Originally Posted by Imperious

so no one goes to western?

very few, probably less than 5. more get in but choose to stay in the GTHA. also western requires a high verbal score and those applicants tend to get into mcmaster after 3 years whereas western requires a complete 4 year degree.

not as many health sci meet the cutoff for western mcat. not many people in general meet it. anyways, mac, ottawa, uoft are the big ones especially due to low mcat cutoffs. all health sci have a shot at med school tho since the program class avgs are 3.95

Originally Posted by HealthSci/Kin

of the health sci students that do get into medical school, where are they usually accepted? I have heard that U of T medical school accepts a lot of health sci (and maybe Mac???)

The majority of us go to McMaster or U of T, but these aren't the only schools people tend to be accepted to. There is selection preference for these schools as well, i.e. of all of my 3rd year peers (~10) who received an offer to Ottawa and Mac/Uoft, all of them picked one of Mac or Uoft depending on what their options were. Many health scis are from the GTA and pick schools close to their homes (I.e. Hamilton or Toronto). There is also a familiarity with Mac's teaching style (PBL) that might make it a more comfortable option for health scis. Then there is the obvious factor that Mac and Toronto are simply the biggest medical schools. Mac has 203 seats, U of T has 259, whereas Queens has 90 (post-Quarms) and Ottawa has 116 for English students. I would actually say a bit more than 5% go to Queens, there are at least 5 third years who are going there in my year and I know plenty of upper years already there.

Mac does not have a low MCAT cutoff - the average verbal accepted at McMaster can be a barrier to some people (it is an 11, or I guess a 128 on the new MCAT - if you are not familiar that is a score around the 95th percentile).

About Western - their medical school has a far different admission mandate than these other Ontario schools. They divide their applicants into SWOMEN or non-SWOMEN status. SWOMEN is for students from South Western Ontario. They are interviewed with far lower MCATs than students from non-SWOMEN areas, who require at least an 11 VR and a 12 BS and a 32 total on the MCAT for an interview (this is all old MCAT talk - its different for the new test). As a whole, not as many students outside of a SWOMEN area will get into Western medicine.

U of T puts A LOT of emphasis on grades with a low MCAT cutoff
McMaster puts 33% emphasis on grades, 33% on VR MCAT and 33% on CASPR (ethics based test)
Ottawa puts 50-50 on GPA and ECs, but you need a wGPA of at least 3.85 to apply, so there is a very heavy emphasis on GPA, and theres no MCAT
Queens use GPA and MCAT as cutoff and accept few people in general (only 100 spots)
Western puts heavy emphasis on MCAT (PS 9, VR 11 and 12 Bio CUTOFF) , my reasoning is that because health science student might not be as strong at standarized testing (mainly the bio cutoff or verbal cutoff), and have high GPA made up for that, therefore they dont usually get in UWO.

UWO have a lot of science students get in, I think medical school should put more emphasis on "standarized" testing (like the US does), less emphasis on GPA (because lets be honest, not all programs are the same)...

Originally Posted by gggggg

U of T puts A LOT of emphasis on grades with a low MCAT cutoff
McMaster puts 33% emphasis on grades, 33% on VR MCAT and 33% on CASPR (ethics based test)
Ottawa puts 50-50 on GPA and ECs, but you need a wGPA of at least 3.85 to apply, so there is a very heavy emphasis on GPA, and theres no MCAT
Queens use GPA and MCAT as cutoff and accept few people in general (only 100 spots)
Western puts heavy emphasis on MCAT (PS 9, VR 11 and 12 Bio CUTOFF) , my reasoning is that because health science student might not be as strong at standarized testing (mainly the bio cutoff or verbal cutoff), and have high GPA made up for that, therefore they dont usually get in UWO.

UWO have a lot of science students get in, I think medical school should put more emphasis on "standarized" testing (like the US does), less emphasis on GPA (because lets be honest, not all programs are the same)...

And yet schools like Ottawa, NOSM, McGill require no standardized testing and produce graduates of at least equal quality to other Canadian schools. And yet schools like McMaster require no science prerequisites or MCAT science and those students become competent physicians like the rest of the class. There is not much evidence that the old MCAT predicts who will become better doctors - we'll have to wait and see with the 2015 version.

I agree about GPA though.. I think Queen's model makes the most sense where it doesn't really matter above a cutoff.

So we have this problem where a super high GPA isn't all that useful, standardized tests aren't all that useful, heck, people get into McMaster and Western all the time without much extracurriculars (which if anything puts people from certain backgrounds at an advantage) and do fine so there is no perfect way.
I think it's good that Ontario has the variety in admissions processes because applicants can find their way into preparing applications for the schools that fits their background the best.

GPA is main factor that the majority of Ontario med schools look at, a lot of them even at the expense of other factors such as the MCAT and extracurriculars, so it is in an applicant's best interests to go into an ideal program with high class averages (Mac Health Sci). I also happen to know quite a few students from Ottawa Health Science and Guelph who have had an easier time getting into med school due to inflated GPAs. In contrast though, I can't imagine that there's a whole lot of Mac Life Sci students who get into med since the program is so competitive.

Mac Health Sci alumni largely go to Ottawa, U of T and McMaster for medical school because while the former doesn't require the MCAT, the latter two don't have as high of an MCAT requirement as Western and Queens do. These three schools do however have really high GPA cutoffs. You will need atleast a 3.9+/ 4.0 GPA to be competitive for U of T and Ottawa, and a 3.8+/ 4.0 for McMaster.

Originally Posted by Pendragon

GPA is main factor that the majority of Ontario med schools look at, a lot of them even at the expense of other factors such as the MCAT and extracurriculars, so it is in an applicant's best interests to go into an ideal program with high class averages (Mac Health Sci). I also happen to know quite a few students from Ottawa Health Science and Guelph who have had an easier time getting into med school due to inflated GPAs. In contrast though, I can't imagine that there's a whole lot of Mac Life Sci students who get into med since the program is so competitive.

Mac Health Sci alumni largely go to Ottawa, U of T and McMaster for medical school because while the former doesn't require the MCAT, the latter two don't have as high of an MCAT requirement as Western and Queens do. These three schools do however have really high GPA cutoffs. You will need atleast a 3.9+/ 4.0 GPA to be competitive for U of T and Ottawa, and a 3.8+/ 4.0 for McMaster.

McMaster is definitely not a really high GPA school.

Their AVERAGE accepted GPA is around 3.8. The difference between a 3.8 and a 4.0 at a school like Mac is definitely important, but it won't make your application. You routinely see really high GPAs being turned down for interview even, and those with in the range of 3.5-3.6 being accepted (completely unheard of at other Canadian schools, and Queen's won't even consider your application with a cGPA that low as an undergrad applicant). Here are the full statistics for McMaster

http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/Classof2017.pdf

At a school like U of T and Ottawa, most undergrads are not even remotely competitive with a 3.8 and (most) will need at least a 3.90 to be interviewed. At Ottawa, sometimes people say don't bother applying without a 3.95+ if you're attempting for the English stream.

So no, McMaster is definitely not a GPA intensive school, but your GPA will need to be reasonably high.

Again, I wouldn't say McMaster's MCAT cutoff is low. It looks only at the verbal, and hardly anyone under a 10 , is offered admission, with most people getting 11+. Verbal is what the majority of science students struggle with, and ~67% of your interview score at Mac comes from your VR and CASPER performance.

Next, Queens doesn't have a very high MCAT cutoff. It is a 9/10/10 with a total of 32. There are at least 6 3rd years in my year going to Queens, and more upper years there. It isn't unusual at all for health scis to go to Queens, but keep in mind it isn't most people's first choice either.

if McMaster puts 33% emphasis on grades, 33% on VR MCAT and 33% on CASPR then do they look at you ECs?
How much does U of T value GPA over MCAT scores?

Originally Posted by HealthSci/Kin

if McMaster puts 33% emphasis on grades, 33% on VR MCAT and 33% on CASPR then do they look at you ECs?
How much does U of T value GPA over MCAT scores?

No. McMaster does not look at ECs. However, you are required to submit three letters of reference and fill out the autobiographical sketch. They generally screen it just to make sure it's ok, but its not formally associated with the ranking.

U of T does not value the MCAT much at all. Before the MCAT changed, all you needed was a 9/9/9 in all the sections. Higher scores did not increase the chances of your application. There will probably be similar policies after the new MCAT as well.

However, U of T value sGPA probably more than any other school. Their average accepted GPA last year was a 3.94 (this is the weighted GPA though, in which they drop your 6 lowest courses if you took a full course load for all years of study and are applying in your 4th year or later - that considered, it's still a pretty high GPA, especially when you consider that about a quarter of U of T's class is Masters/PHD students and they are admitted with lower GPAs than undergrads). Somebody once calculated that the average accepted weighted GPA for a successful undergrad candidate was something like 3.97.

So to answer your question, for U of T your weighted GPA is far more important than your MCAT; for McMaster, both are important, namely the verbal section, and McMaster is a school that is more forgiving of lower GPAs provided you can demonstrate excellence in the VR or CASPer; for Toronto, they screen out pre-interview predominately on GPA though they will look at your ECs and essays too.

how much does Queens value Mcat over GPA? And at U of t after you reach the minimum Mcat threshold do the GPA and ECs have a 50-50 value?

Originally Posted by HealthSci/Kin

how much does Queens value Mcat over GPA? And at U of t after you reach the minimum Mcat threshold do the GPA and ECs have a 50-50 value?

Queens use MCAT and GPA as cutoffs only, past the cutoff, its ECs. So Queens is not really a GPA heavy school.
And For U of T, the GPA and ECs do not have a 50-50 value, there was a mysterious document on U of T med that had the distribution, but for U of T, they look at your academic record (w/e this means, it could be GPA, your courseload, graduate degree, etc...), essays and answers to questions (I heard this is worth more than you think and it is very important), references, and extracurriculars.

Originally Posted by gggggg

Queens use MCAT and GPA as cutoffs only, past the cutoff, its ECs. So Queens is not really a GPA heavy school.
And For U of T, the GPA and ECs do not have a 50-50 value, there was a mysterious document on U of T med that had the distribution, but for U of T, they look at your academic record (w/e this means, it could be GPA, your courseload, graduate degree, etc...), essays and answers to questions (I heard this is worth more than you think and it is very important), references, and extracurriculars.

There are publicly available documents on U of T's admissions process circa 2012. I won't post them here but if you're interested PM me and I can tell you what to search on PubMed to find them. But in summary, based on this document, the bulk of U of T's pre-interview criteria is based on GPA and LORs.