Hey! I'm applying for McMaster for the current year, and I was just wondering a few things.

1) What do 4th year Health Sciences students expect in supplementary applications? Any advice current Health Sciences students can give me for writing a good supplementary?
2) How difficult is it to transfer into Health Sciences in second year from Life Sciences?
3) Have any students been in both Health Sciences and Life sciences, and which program did you switch out of/into and why?

I'm trying to make my choice right now between the two - two programs which I am extremely dedicated to, and will end up pursuing the majors that are similar in either one of them (Biochemistry, Biomedical Research specialization), if I get in.

I heard that even though the cut off is a 90%, individuals generally only get considered for Health Sci if their average is 92% and above - is this accurate?
I just want to know which program would be more beneficial for my end goal (currently either wanting to pursue pediatric immunology, cardiology, reconstructive plastic surgery (trauma victims, general reconstructions of the wrist/ankle/etc), opthamology or virology).

Currently my grades are;
Biology - 93
Exercise Science - 96
World Issues - 96
World History - 89
Advanced Functions - 86
Calculus - 60
Physics - 80
Chemistry - 90
English - 91

The first three courses are courses that are in progress, but biology is my strong point and world issues is an easy course, so I don't expect the grades to fluctuate much. Also, I'm a student whose going to be completing their volunteer hours following January, would that affect my offers of admission? And finally, any advice you have for going into University and living on your own? I'm rather frightened right now and any advice is good advice

Sorry for the long-winded post! I look forward to hearing your responses

idk about health sci but for life sci first year is just a bunch of general courses like 2 bios, 2 chems, 2 maths, 2 physics, w.e. after first year you apply to different programs and you can go into biochem, bio, chembio, physics, etc. there is a lot to choose from. if you opt to stay in life sci, its pretty much just electives after first year. going into science programs that i mentioned above are more 'sciencey' compared to health sci. health sci doesnt do much science, if any, after the first year chem.

All I can say is marks don't "really"matter for the Health sci application. The mark is just so they would read your supplementary and your whole application is based on that. I have had 2 freinds with 94 and 99 average and not get accepted

TLDR don't mess up your supplementary

What do you mean by "what do 4th year health sciences students expect"?

How difficult a transfer is depends on your grades after first year, and the strength of your application. There aren't many transfer spots, but people do get in

Personally I think if you care about biochem, you should do life sciences and then major in it. Health sci with a biomed specialization doesn't come close to the biochem you'd do if you majored in it, especially if you specialize within the biochem program.

It is also my personal opinion that the biochemistry program will prepare you better for med school, but I know that there are a significant number of people who disagree with me. Regardless, you will probably get better grades in health sci and have a stronger med school application (aside from just the grades). I emphasized "probably" because this does depend on the person and there are always exceptions (the exceptions aren't even all that rare), but that's what the general trend is. The health sci program, moreso than most others, is entirely what you make of it. Some students are very well suited to this type of program and others aren't. Don't be attracted by the "prestige"...it could be the most prestigious program in the world, that still doesn't make it the right program for you. That's the goal of the supplementary application...they try to make sure the students they select are a good fit for the program.

People can and do get into med school from any program, though, so I'd say go for what you're interested in.

Originally Posted by starfish

What do you mean by "what do 4th year health sciences students expect"?

How difficult a transfer is depends on your grades after first year, and the strength of your application. There aren't many transfer spots, but people do get in

Personally I think if you care about biochem, you should do life sciences and then major in it. Health sci with a biomed specialization doesn't come close to the biochem you'd do if you majored in it, especially if you specialize within the biochem program.

It is also my personal opinion that the biochemistry program will prepare you better for med school, but I know that there are a significant number of people who disagree with me. Regardless, you will probably get better grades in health sci and have a stronger med school application (aside from just the grades). I emphasized "probably" because this does depend on the person and there are always exceptions (the exceptions aren't even all that rare), but that's what the general trend is. The health sci program, moreso than most others, is entirely what you make of it. Some students are very well suited to this type of program and others aren't. Don't be attracted by the "prestige"...it could be the most prestigious program in the world, that still doesn't make it the right program for you. That's the goal of the supplementary application...they try to make sure the students they select are a good fit for the program.

People can and do get into med school from any program, though, so I'd say go for what you're interested in.

I know that 4th years mark the supplementary applications, so that's why I'm asking what they'd be looking for in a supplementary app. Like what would stand out.

Dont they have a limit for how low you mark in one course can be. What I'm saying is that that calculus of yours doesn't look good.

Okay, I'm in first year health sci - let me take a moment to dispel some of these silly myths

After 90%, we stop caring about your marks. No tie-breakers. The 90% is a cutoff, and that's it - you get considered if you get over this threshold. There is no difference between 90% and 99%!

The supp app is out of 7. There are three markers, and an average is taken - the final score is in increments of 0.1 I think. Applications that get a perfect score are automatically accepted, and then we go down the list from there until about ~250 acceptances go out (because people do reject, often because of geographical distance).

Alright, now that that's out of the way, here's your mark as it stands:

Biology: 93%
Advanced Functions: 86%
Chemistry: 90%
English: 91%
World Issues: 96%
Exercise Science: 96%

Average: 92%

If those marks are correct, your application will be considered - no doubt about that.

Regarding transfers, this is extremely difficult to attain as far as I know - it's usually about 20 students a year that make it (don't quote me on that number, though). I'm not sure what GPA is required, but I know it's ridiculously high... so don't rely on this.

Now I'm going to reiterate again - 90% is the cutoff, and that's it. 92% is not a sub-cutoff or anything like that - a 90 is a 90 is a 90, and 91% is the same as 99% in our eyes.

I'm going to take this opportunity to respond to starfish's post. You will not get better grades in health sci. Put it this way: one of the main courses we take, HTH SCI 1I06 (Cellular and Molecular Biology), has a major component called a TRIPSE, a Tri-Partite Problem Solving Exercise, which is a three-hour test that you have twice. The average last year was 72% or something like that if memory serves me correctly. Health scis work hard, and then we get high marks - that's all there is to it. Don't come to health sci because you want a high GPA - come to health sci because you want more than just a degree, but rather, you want an experience where you'll learn applicable science while growing as a person at the same time. Health sci makes you think and be critical of the information around you - something that I love and drives my motivation to continue with it. If you genuinely like what you're doing, and you learn and work hard, you'll get a high GPA no matter what you do.

I love being in health sci, and I wouldn't give it up for the world. If you're going to come, come for the experience, and to expand your mind to new frontiers. Check out www.bhscene.com, a site made by upper year health sci students, for more information. There's a great video about it under the tab that says "Why BHSc?"

Oh, just saw your message, AngryBean. Nope, there is no limit, and we take your top six including the prereqs. That calculus mark doesn't matter.

If you want any more information, please feel free to PM me

I sometimes wonder if even the health sci moderators know what they look for in a health sci applicant...

Don't come to health sci because you want a high GPA - come to health sci because you want more than just a degree, but rather, you want an experience where you'll learn applicable science while growing as a person at the same time

it should be like this but i dont know any health sci who isnt in the program for the high gpa >_>

Originally Posted by ngarber

Okay, I'm in first year health sci - let me take a moment to dispel some of these silly myths

After 90%, we stop caring about your marks. No tie-breakers. The 90% is a cutoff, and that's it - you get considered if you get over this threshold. There is no difference between 90% and 99%!

The supp app is out of 7. There are three markers, and an average is taken - the final score is in increments of 0.1 I think. Applications that get a perfect score are automatically accepted, and then we go down the list from there until about ~250 acceptances go out (because people do reject, often because of geographical distance).

Alright, now that that's out of the way, here's your mark as it stands:

Biology: 93%
Advanced Functions: 86%
Chemistry: 90%
English: 91%
World Issues: 96%
Exercise Science: 96%

Average: 92%

If those marks are correct, your application will be considered - no doubt about that.

Regarding transfers, this is extremely difficult to attain as far as I know - it's usually about 20 students a year that make it (don't quote me on that number, though). I'm not sure what GPA is required, but I know it's ridiculously high... so don't rely on this.

Now I'm going to reiterate again - 90% is the cutoff, and that's it. 92% is not a sub-cutoff or anything like that - a 90 is a 90 is a 90, and 91% is the same as 99% in our eyes.

I'm going to take this opportunity to respond to starfish's post. You will not get better grades in health sci. Put it this way: one of the main courses we take, HTH SCI 1I06 (Cellular and Molecular Biology), has a major component called a TRIPSE, a Tri-Partite Problem Solving Exercise, which is a three-hour test that you have twice. The average last year was 72% or something like that if memory serves me correctly. Health scis work hard, and then we get high marks - that's all there is to it. Don't come to health sci because you want a high GPA - come to health sci because you want more than just a degree, but rather, you want an experience where you'll learn applicable science while growing as a person at the same time. Health sci makes you think and be critical of the information around you - something that I love and drives my motivation to continue with it. If you genuinely like what you're doing, and you learn and work hard, you'll get a high GPA no matter what you do.

I love being in health sci, and I wouldn't give it up for the world. If you're going to come, come for the experience, and to expand your mind to new frontiers. Check out, a site made by upper year health sci students, for more information. There's a great video about it under the tab that says "Why BHSc?"

Oh, just saw your message, AngryBean. Nope, there is no limit, and we take your top six including the prereqs. That calculus mark doesn't matter.

If you want any more information, please feel free to PM me

Yeah, I know the calculus mark doesn't matter. Math, as indicated by my marks (Physics/Calculus/Advanced Functions) are not my strongest points even though I put a lot of time into them. After I took advanced functions and got an 86 (originally was aiming for life sciences only because I didn't think I'd be able to get into health sciences) and was happy with that, I didn't take that much interest in calculus mostly because my teacher was awful. But, I managed to pull through and get good grades in other courses which pulled that mark up and now I'm more seriously considering health sciences because it's an option.

My biggest problem with going into Health Sciences is that all of the group work and group interaction will be difficult, and since it's a competitive program, I'm afraid that people won't be nice (grew up being bullied, so it's kind of a fear and I've heard that health science students can be arrogant at times [not sure if this is true or not and I don't want to offend anyone so I'm just going to put a disclaimer that this is NOT what I think, it's just what I've heard]).

I think that I would do well in health sciences... and I do love inquiry/seminar based courses and trying to figure things out. I also really want to pursue McMaster's MD/PhD program following my undergrad, and I know that health sciences prepares you well for that and that's mostly why I want to pursue the program - just because it highlights all the key things I need for med school.
But, conversely, I also want to take a lot of knowledge based courses since I love learning too, so I'm not sure how "free", so to speak, Health sciences is with electives in comparison to life sciences.

Originally Posted by Silver

it should be like this but i dont know any health sci who isnt in the program for the high gpa >_>

See, I want to do Health Sciences for the following reasons:

1) It will prepare me for medical school, and for a job as a doctor/surgeon in the future
2) I like a lot of the courses that the health sciences faculty offers in 3rd and 4th year (Intro Immuno, Virology, Advanced Immuno, Bacterial Antibiotic Resistance, Biochemical Immuno, Viropathogenesis + mandatory Mol Bio of Cancer)

But, I haven't taken a look into how many electives I can take each year + the idea of inquiry kind of freaks me out because it can be about absolutely anything. It's cool but at the same time freaky - does anybody have any reviews on Inquiry?

Originally Posted by ngarber

I'm going to take this opportunity to respond to starfish's post. You will not get better grades in health sci. Put it this way: one of the main courses we take, HTH SCI 1I06 (Cellular and Molecular Biology), has a major component called a TRIPSE, a Tri-Partite Problem Solving Exercise, which is a three-hour test that you have twice. The average last year was 72% or something like that if memory serves me correctly. Health scis work hard, and then we get high marks - that's all there is to it. Don't come to health sci because you want a high GPA - come to health sci because you want more than just a degree, but rather, you want an experience where you'll learn applicable science while growing as a person at the same time. Health sci makes you think and be critical of the information around you - something that I love and drives my motivation to continue with it. If you genuinely like what you're doing, and you learn and work hard, you'll get a high GPA no matter what you do.

In terms of the grades, statistically speaking you *will* get better grades in health sci. If you pick any random health sci and any random life sci, most of the time the health sci will have better grades. Looking at the graduation programs, there's usually 1-5 health scis with no star next to their name, and far more life scis with no star next to their names. The averages of health sci students are higher, you can't deny that. Having a course with two difficult tests really doesn't change that. All programs have courses with difficult components.

I'm not implying that it's because health sci is easier, which I think is why you're getting defensive. Staying outside of that debate altogether, I believe that a contributing factor to health scis doing well is that they're selected based on students that are a good fit to the program. If you take a student in any program and have them take courses suited to their learning style, of course they're going to get higher grades than if they were in courses that don't. At the same time, a student in health sci who doesn't get the learning style, then they'll do poorly.

1) It will prepare me for medical school, and for a job as a doctor/surgeon in the future
2) I like a lot of the courses that the health sciences faculty offers in 3rd and 4th year (Intro Immuno, Virology, Advanced Immuno, Bacterial Antibiotic Resistance, Biochemical Immuno, Viropathogenesis + mandatory Mol Bio of Cancer)

1) i doubt it prepares you for med school. health sci is pretty laid back, especially in 3rd and 4th year where its just electives. i doubt that kind of workload would prepare you for what you will face in med school.

2) i doubt you know what you like about uni courses yet. you dont know how those courses are structured and you havent even looked into /science/bio courses yet which actually have labs and actual science stuff. lots of health sci courses can be taken as electives by non health scis anyways. if youre looking for a gpa boost, my friends always recommend the health sci courses.

I applied to health sci after high school but got rejected and went into life sci. Honestly, I loved life sci. It's a general science course that covers your general sciences and there are a lot of opportunities to specialize in upper years. So if you don't get into health sci, don't worry, life sci is great. That being said, I did apply for a transfer after my first year and got in . The supplementary application is the same that the high school students write, and other than that, you need a 10.0 GPA on a 12.0 scale.

You had some concerns about group work. I had the same thoughts when I got accepted and was a bit worried, but now that I'm in it, its not as bad as you think. You get used to constant group meetings and it just becomes a normal part of your schooling. If you have any questions about health sci or transferring, PM me.

About which program is easier, when I was in life sci, I was sure that health sci would be easier and would be easy to get all 12s. But now that I'm in it, I can guarantee you that is not the case. I find that I am working much harder this year than I was first year, and my marks are lower. Like Starfish said, I feel that they pick students effectively for the program, and I think that is why you see students getting high marks in health sci