Hey guys,

I was accepted into both of these programs and I'm having a really hard time deciding which one to pick: either to transfer into Health Sciences or to specialize into Chemical Biology.

I've already asked the Health Science people if it was at all possible for me to join the Biochemical Specialization, but I doubt that will work out at all.

Chemical Biology intrigues me with its huge emphasis on labwork and research, not to mention that I'm really interested in reaction mechanisms and whatnot.

Health Sciences I heard is a fantastic program in Years 2-4 (not so much year 1 for some reason), including bell rings in anatomy courses, and sweet clinical settings to improve communication skills.

Difficulty is not really a issue for me - if it's not dry, I'm not a complainer. I know that Chembio is excruciatingly painful first term, but I'm not the greatest writer either so Health Science might also be very difficult. And yes, I want to go to med school.

So uh, which do you think would be the better choice for next year?

Just as a side note, how did you find out that you got into Health Science, was it just on the Grade Reports?

yeh it should say that you are eligible for it under your grade reports and you should get an email as well
i know in health sci you get alot of electives during your third and fourth year
you can always do a chem minor or biochem minor? so you get the best of both worlds???

Well, if you're looking to get into Med school, it's probably to take opportunities to practice writing if you think you are not good at it - you'll need to write for the application, and more often than not good writing skills goes hand in hand with good reading comprehension skills, which is useful for the Verbal Reasoning section of the MCAT.

But with regard to your dilemma, ChemBio is definitely more research-oriented intrinsically while Healthsci, regardless of what the program admin tells you, is a (highly successful) pre-med program. So if your goal is med school, at a glance Healthsci seems to be the obvious choice? But since you are debating between the two, you probably have some reason for considering a more research-oriented program before med school - care to elaborate? Perhaps that'll help with the decision?

@zeChinaman

It's not that I want to pursue any sort of research in my career or anything really, but I do want to keep my options open in case. As well, chemical biology does sound like a lot of fun, and I could still apply to med school afterwards. I didn't really want to do undergrad just to go into med school, but its true that it is a goal.

@goldfish101 It's true that Health Science has quite a few electives to choose from - meaning that I could take a lot of the Chem Bio courses that I particularly enjoy - like a minor. On the flipside, I could also take Chem Bio and just take a lot of Health Science courses. I will definitely be doing one or the other, just have to decide which one...

Thanks for the help guys!

Originally Posted by iRetaliate

@zeChinaman

It's not that I want to pursue any sort of research in my career or anything really, but I do want to keep my options open in case. As well, chemical biology does sound like a lot of fun, and I could still apply to med school afterwards. I didn't really want to do undergrad just to go into med school, but its true that it is a goal.

@goldfish101 It's true that Health Science has quite a few electives to choose from - meaning that I could take a lot of the Chem Bio courses that I particularly enjoy - like a minor. On the flipside, I could also take Chem Bio and just take a lot of Health Science courses. I will definitely be doing one or the other, just have to decide which one...

Thanks for the help guys!

You seem like a very smart person who's evidently not simply going all in for one or the other, so I think at this point it may be wise to consider non academic factors to influence your decision.

The Health Sci community from the Health Scis I know, is quite tightly knit and close. It just helps foster that sense of "family" and it's great for things like getting to know facilitators and professors better for references or volunteering opportunities with them, as well as just building a great network and establishing a rapport with the people significant to your academic journey.

But then again, you also have Chem Bio, which is a more compact community given that there are only 30 people in your year and only 120 people in the program 2010/2011. You have all the perks of individual professor/student interaction but I doubt it varies vastly between this and Health Sci.

One big thing that's emphasized in Health Sci is group work. I'm not sure how much that holds in Chem Bio, but it's definitely a skill worth picking up on. Their courses are fairly unique and you learn some amazing things; I know you work with cadavers next year and you really get a "med school" feel, forming close bonds with the groups you have.

But speaking about med school, you might also want to consider that in a program like Chem Bio, or let's just say Chemistry (because I'm evidently a bit biased both ways with a lot of Health Sci friends but choosing Chem Bio as my program next year) you have the opportunity to learn a lot more, well beyond a minor, about a program or field of study that will not be taught to you with such rigor in med school.

When I was applying and worried whether I'd be in your position right now, a friend of mine had told me that if it was simply that dream of being a medical professional that I was tending toward, I'd be a "Health Sci" in med school if you will. There are great aspects to the Health Sci program, definitely, regardless of what you'll hear or have already heard about their "watered down courses" but I think it extends beyond "med school prep". I think the focus they give to their students, and the help they provide them in shaping their careers is one of the aspects that often gets overlooked on the forums. They also encourage a lot of diversity in their student population; I know Health Scis taking Classics courses and loving it, taking Russian and loving that and taking things like Theatre and Film. And I believe they really encourage a well rounded individual which to me, is the best med school prep possible. The MCAT does not ask you to work with a cadaver - you get taught that; so Health Sci may be somewhat useful in adapting to the experiences you'll have in med school but I think the goal of the program extends beyond just "mini doctors" if you will.

Edit: Another thing I really liked about the Chem Bio program is the focus on drugs and the possibility of a proper thesis in 4th year. I think Health Sci has something similar but I'm just too lazy to look it up on the undergrad. calendar. But yes, back to pharmaceuticals; I think that's one of the most important things you can have knowledge about as an aspiring medical professional. Too often, doctors are irresponsible or just plain ignorant of the real impact of their prescription pads so I'd recommend taking courses about chemical/pharmaceutical interactions within the human body for yourself more than anything.

goodnews.inc,

Thank you for that ridiculously well-written post. I'm certain that you are much, much smarter than me.

I am leaning towards Chembio to be honest at the moment, but these things change every day I'll just have to contemplate more, talk to more faculty members, etc.

If I do choose Chemical Biology, I'll see you there! Congratulations on your acceptance!

hey, did you end up choosing ChemBio in the end?

Hey guys!
Interesting decision to make - Health Sci or Chem Bio... they're very different in pretty much every way possible. Though they're both "science" I guess.
To address a few things though:

"But then again, you also have Chem Bio, which is a more compact community given that there are only 30 people in your year and only 120 people in the program 2010/2011. You have all the perks of individual professor/student interaction but I doubt it varies vastly between this and Health Sci."

There are currently fewer than 40 people in the Chemical Biology program (I am not counting the people who are ENTERING the program in September 2010). However, the level of prof/student interaction varies between classes as, especially in 2nd year of ChemBio, you have a lot of classes with the Biochemists and other related programs (ex. Organic Chemistry, Analytical Chemistry, Physical Chemistry, etc. The only "exclusively Chem Bio" courses during your second year will be the lab course, 2L03, and the Inquiry course, 2Q03).

One big thing that's emphasized in Health Sci is group work. I'm not sure how much that holds in Chem Bio, but it's definitely a skill worth picking up on.

Well, in the Chem Bio Inquiry course you are definitely expected to work in groups for two of the three projects you have throughout the year. For other courses it's more individual work (it's not a PBL-based learning program)... and the lab course, 2L03, is definitely designed so that each person has to do their own thinking (everyone has to design their own protocols, despite being given general ones which they may follow).

When I was applying and worried whether I'd be in your position right now, a friend of mine had told me that if it was simply that dream of being a medical professional that I was tending toward, I'd be a "Health Sci" in med school if you will. There are great aspects to the Health Sci program, definitely, regardless of what you'll hear or have already heard about their "watered down courses" but I think it extends beyond "med school prep". I think the focus they give to their students, and the help they provide them in shaping their careers is one of the aspects that often gets overlooked on the forums. They also encourage a lot of diversity in their student population; I know Health Scis taking Classics courses and loving it, taking Russian and loving that and taking things like Theatre and Film. And I believe they really encourage a well rounded individual which to me, is the best med school prep possible.

I definitely agree with the fact that if you are Med School bound that Health Sciences may be a better choice of programs. For me, Chemical Biology has opened a lot more doors, and has opened my eyes to things other than Medical School. Honestly, with any small program, there is a better focus on the individual student. But in the end it is up to the STUDENT to make the effort to reach out to the Profs and let them know that they need help or are interested in what they are doing. The important thing in any program as well is to ensure that you do not "over-indulge" in your program. The responsibility to become a well-rounded individual lies in your hands.. and though YES certain programs will give you more time to explore your interests, you decide for yourself how great of an emphasis school has in your life. I learned this the hard way.. you need to "study smart".

Edit: Another thing I really liked about the Chem Bio program is the focus on drugs and the possibility of a proper thesis in 4th year. I think Health Sci has something similar but I'm just too lazy to look it up on the undergrad. calendar. But yes, back to pharmaceuticals; I think that's one of the most important things you can have knowledge about as an aspiring medical professional. Too often, doctors are irresponsible or just plain ignorant of the real impact of their prescription pads so I'd recommend taking courses about chemical/pharmaceutical interactions within the human body for yourself more than anything.

This is true; however, I just want to make sure that you know and understand the difference between drug design (synthetic or pharmacognosy) and the study of the effects of the drugs on the biological system. Look at the main courses we take in Chem Bio:

Analytical Chemistry, the 2nd Year Lab Course (Standard Tools/Techniques of Chemical Biology), Cell Biology, Nucleic Acid Structure/Function, Bio-physical Chemistry, Protein Structure/Enzyme Function, Genetics, Bio-organic Chemistry, Biomolecular Interactions, Inquiry for Chemical Biology, 3rd Year Lab Course, Structural Elucidation, Assay Development, Bio-inorganic Chemistry, Natural Products, Medicinal Chemistry: Drug Design and Development, Organic Chemistry I and II, Organic Synthesis, Metabolism and Regulation, Bio-inorganic Chemistry, Thesis or Research Project, Instrumental Analysis.

You will be given theoretical knowledge (a lot of it!) about how DNA, RNA, and proteins work, organic synthesis, natural products, basic metabolic activities, biosynthesis/degradation of biomolecules, thermodynamics, analytical techniques and methods of detection, higher-level instrumentation for analysis, validation methods, etc.
Pharmacology requires knowledge of how macromolecules (proteins, RNA, DNA) and small molecules will be metabolized within a biological system. If you want to learn more about this, then I suggest you take some of the pharmacology courses available. I have said this in another post: Chemical Biology is very VAST. Genomics, proteomics, pharmacology, bio-organic chemistry, medicinal chemistry.. yes, they're all related and thus all components of chemical biology. But I just want you to know that the undergrad program is geared towards 'in vitro' work rather than 'in vivo'. By no means is this a BAD thing; you can always do in vivo work during your summer research projects! Just know that, for the most part, when screening for small molecule inhibitors of a protein, or something of that nature, you will be putting the inhibitor in a test tube with the protein target (without the cellular environment in which it would naturally be present).
I *almost* went into the Biology and Pharmacology Co-op Program third-year, but decided to stay in the Chemical Biology program. Why? Not enough analytical chemistry... haha! No, I'm kidding. It was because the inter-disciplinary nature of Chemical Biology appeals to me... Biology & Pharmacology is very specialized, and (sorry to all the biologists) just too much Biology for my taste. Also because my questions generally revolve around the chemistry of things... and after being in genetics 2C03, I figured that unfortunately I could not find people in the Biology Department who could answer my chemistry-based questions. Nothing wrong with that though.. they have a different area of expertise.

I think Health Sci has something similar but I'm just too lazy to look it up on the undergrad. calendar.

... yes, Health Sci's definitely have a thesis course that they can take.

Just wanted to share my opinion on health sci, as a student currently in the program, for prospective students reading this thread.
Health sci does not give you any advantages for applying to med school whatsoever.

The focus of health sci, unlike many science programs, is to have "breadth" rather than "depth" (not saying depth is insignificant at all). That's why we have a large room of electives (so you can take a break from science courses and explore other fields) and our required courses introduce us to the basics of health sciences, such as psychology (psychobiology), biochemistry, cell bio, epidemiology, medical literature, etc. Also, if you love travelling and care about global health, we have global health specialization, which lets you travel (to volunteer & learn i think) to other countries for a term. You definitely CAN get into depth if you want by taking more in-depth courses. For example, not only do we have "advanced" (typically 3rd or 4th year courses) health sci courses, we also have biomedical specialization.
Many of our courses are taught in a unique way involving group work and problem based learning, as mentioned by people on this thread. I haven't experienced other programs so I cannot compare health sci and others in terms of how PBL differs, etc. Our first year inquiry class (or second year transfer inquiry) is dedicated to teach you (well you teach yourself.. it is like a practice round essentially for group work you will be doing for the next 3, 4 years) how to work in groups, how to "learn", how to locate proper resources and use them, etc.

Health sci, as a program, cares about your personal growth. If you think this is BS (and yes there are people in the program who think it is BS), then it will remain as BS forever. but if you believe in it and try to absorb good things, then it truly will contribute to your strength. I personally thought it was BS but after experiencing it myself, I came to realize I was very lucky to be in the program (I am definitely not saying health sci is the best program created on earth).

Although our program can be larger than some other "small" programs (but we are still small! -only 160-200 people in each year), I don't think it means that we get less support. Our staff members are always available for us and they have always been keen on getting our feedback and modifying the program. I am quite sure every course, at least once, has gone through some sort of modification process (in fact, some of them are still ongoing!). Our first year cell bio was quite different from the previous year's. I am sure next year's course will be different from ours.

I think you can read Dr. Harnish's post about the program if you wish.
http://www.premed101.com/forums/show....php?p=1652 7
I found this link buried somewhere when I was choosing my undergrad program for a million hours last year.

The bottom line is that you will be happy anywhere.. just choose what your gut says.