I'm thinking of whether to apply in Year II or not, and the websites/calender/etc doesn't give me enough info.

So...

Tell me about your program - anything you can think of would be helpful. Exactly how much group work do you do, how are your leture hours, homework...anything at all.

-Thanks

Hey,

I'm actually in life science as well. I kind of regret not taking health sci because of how easy it acutally is. Almost everyone I know on health sci has a 10-12 GPA! Its just really hard getting in. I would have got in but thanks to my high school advisor and what he said I just decided to go with life sci. But I have I've asked around about the pgraom and I have heard and been told that McMaster Health Sci students who go to med school do not do as good in med school if thats your plan. Life Sci better prepares you and Health Sci degree is pretty limited comapred to a life sci degree.

Originally Posted by patelp

Hey,

I'm actually in life science as well. I kind of regret not taking health sci because of how easy it acutally is. Almost everyone I know on health sci has a 10-12 GPA! Its just really hard getting in. I would have got in but thanks to my high school advisor and what he said I just decided to go with life sci. But I have I've asked around about the pgraom and I have heard and been told that McMaster Health Sci students who go to med school do not do as good in med school if thats your plan. Life Sci better prepares you and Health Sci degree is pretty limited comapred to a life sci degree.

I'm not in Health Sci so I don't have whole lot of insight into this but from what I can see, most of the health sci required courses are HEALTH (by what I mean med) related. I would assume that health sci's do equally well or better in med school compared to other programs since they not only have people with higher marks (and thus, usually more hard working) in their program to push them, but the subjects that they study are also topics that would be covered in med school.

I'm sure you have your own department pride (I'm in BioPsych and proud) but I don't understand how life sci (with more electives, therefore less medical courses being pushed on you) would better prepare you than health sci (whose primary focus is the health industry).

I'm just saying what I heard. Health Science is for medical related fields but thats if your mindset is on medical and you know you want a health related career. And yes they are smart! No doubt about it. They work hard and all but thats not my point. I've asked around at other universities and some other students who have gone to medical schools, they said that McMaster health science doesn't well prepare you. Mabye its they way they teach here? I don't really know.

I for one hate LIFE science. But I do love science. The only reason I'm even in the program is because it is the only program that leaves so many oppurtunities open after graduating. I'm not extactly sure what I'm going to do... so I decided on it. If I knew what wanted to do I wish I could go back and apply to another program or something but I can't. You could get into med school with almost any degree... they just want a good GPA and a good score on MCAT and some science courses.

And another thing, if you do want a health career... Isn't up to you to pick the courses that will help you out?

Originally Posted by Infinity

Hey,

I'm actually in life science as well. I kind of regret not taking health sci because of how easy it acutally is. Almost everyone I know on health sci has a 10-12 GPA! Its just really hard getting in. I would have got in but thanks to my high school advisor and what he said I just decided to go with life sci. But I have I've asked around about the pgraom and I have heard and been told that McMaster Health Sci students who go to med school do not do as good in med school if thats your plan. Life Sci better prepares you and Health Sci degree is pretty limited comapred to a life sci degree.

Um.. I am in first year health sci and have talked to many upper year students. Yes, health sci courses do not require as much work as other science-y courses, but do require a different set of skills; communication, team work, etc. It may sound easy, but it is not easy for everyone. In fact, there have been several people who switched out because it did not suit them well. The first year is supposedly a 'joke' but the second year gets pretty hard apparently. I think many people are basing their opinions on the first year.
And, I do not know where you heard about those rumours - because I heard exactly the opposite. Their science skills get proven in the MCAT - if that's what you meant by they don't do as well as other students in med school. Secondly, they are very familiar with PBL as it is the core of health sci. PBL is becoming more and more popular in med schools.
Lastly, I do not know where you are coming from about the limitation of health sci degree. Not only are there specializations but also there are minors you can take. You can have a music minor, if you want, or a chem minor, etc. There are people who go into law and other things as a matter of fact. Not everyone is for med school.

Originally Posted by Infinity

I'm just saying what I heard. Health Science is for medical related fields but thats if your mindset is on medical and you know you want a health related career. And yes they are smart! No doubt about it. They work hard and all but thats not my point. I've asked around at other universities and some other students who have gone to medical schools, they said that McMaster health science doesn't well prepare you. Mabye its they way they teach here? I don't really know.

I for one hate LIFE science. But I do love science. The only reason I'm even in the program is because it is the only program that leaves so many oppurtunities open after graduating. I'm not extactly sure what I'm going to do... so I decided on it. If I knew what wanted to do I wish I could go back and apply to another program or something but I can't. You could get into med school with almost any degree... they just want a good GPA and a good score on MCAT and some science courses.

And another thing, if you do want a health career... Isn't up to you to pick the courses that will help you out?

Yeah I've heard that H. Sci is a lot of group work so I guess the graduates may have a harder time adjusting to a non-group work environment. Also, a lot of their courses are based on self-evaluation or essay style midterms/exams. They have to work for it, but they do get to grade themselves in some courses. That could be the reason, who knows.

I love sci too!!! But I love psych and bio too much otherwise I would've gone into life sci. It gives you more electives but being in a double major program gives me higher priority over course selection (when that horrid time comes around) and I'd probably end up taking all bio and psych anyways.

Yes picking health-ish courses will help you but I think that a lot of students in life sci are in it because they want the electives that will boost up their GPA. After taking the prerequisites for med or dental or whatever, they will choose most of their other courses based on ace-ability instead of branching off into other health-related courses. I'm not saying all life sciers do this, just most from the people that I know in life sci. They may find in med/dental that taking slightly harder, more health related courses would have helped them with a stronger health base. I think that Health Science's course content is something that would be covered again in med school, giving students who take those courses a slight advantage.

Health sci students do get many electives - which are not necessarily always health sci courses. They are exposed to a non-group work environment as well as a group work environment. I haven't heard anything about not being able to adjust to a non-group work environment.

Okay, Health Sci is EASY. I know because three of my house mates are Health Sci; one of whom lectures me daily on how he has no work. During his first year, I never saw him do anything but play Age of Empires and do a few chem problems every once in a while. All he ever complained about was having to do inquiry (which is apparently bullshit and somehow passed off as a biochem credit). He also only had three exams per semester and got to go home earlier than I did :(.

Now that it's second year, all that he and my other health sci house-mates do is watch movies/TV on their computers. Apparently third year is even easier, and in fourth year they write a thesis, which is apparently also a joke. The stuff they do now (anatomy, which is apparently supposed to be hard) even looks easy. Just memorize a whole bunch of body components (I even still know half of them from grade 11 bio)... I think proving mathematical things is harder.

So therefore, contrary to what many believe, health sci isn't really serious business. Engineering is serious business .

Well, the health sci course that I'm taking right now has assignments that are complete/incomplete, worth 10% of your final. If you get an incomplete, the TAs will let you redo the assignment.

The exam is also a take home exam.

50% of the class got a 10 or higher last year.

I am in the health sci program. Second Year. Also in the new biomedical sciences specialization they started. first year is, admittedly, easier than any other program's first year. which is quite a plus for the hth sci students as adjustment to univ. is not as difficult. but first years take 3 electives and have to take the life sci chem courses. the 'major' life sci course they're not taking is biology, which is covered in the full year cell bio course. this is a PBL course and it is content-heavy; not a breezer. there is only group work with the final project- but it's worth a lot. then there's inquiryI which is hard or easy depending completely on who your facilitator is. my class changed facilitators in term 2 and had to do research intensive group project on anything we chose (science related)- it was intense, because the class made it so - there are minimum guidelines, so the students direct their own learning pretty much- u decide how intense u wanna get, and with a dozen of high school keeners, it can get pretty much that...
second yr is supposed to be the worst; and from the work load so far i can see the difference for sure... most students take organic chem - its the regular course offered by the chem dept.- and biochem courses tht are required for med schools or grad schools, there's the main inquiry core- tht has u doing research intensive group work on specific biochem topics without any basic general biochem course taken first. <- biomed spec. students don't take this, but are actually in the regular Biochemistry degree 2nd yr classes (tht life sci's tht go to biochem in yr 2 take)
the anatomy is not taught by BHSc instructors, its an elective course that nurses, some engineers, midwifery students and hth sci's all take together - nothing unusually easy-just-for-us about it! there is not really anything like tht if u think abt it, there just may be some courses redesigned with PBL and the hth field in mind, so tht there is not much reason to be learning abt plants in cell bio in hth sci for example... think human only.

anyways, life sci and hth sci are different programs for a reason. if u trying to decide whether u are right for the hth sci program, think about what you want to do in the future- are u interested in a hth career (doesn't hav to be med school, many many students go to do masters, pharmacy, dentistry, law school... u name it!) , then think about how well u'll like Problem Based Learning - do u like info being handed to u in lectures - tht's not gonna happen as much, u'll need to do research...but as someone already mentioned, more and more med schools are changing to PBL, this is something the asst. dean of hth sci told us too - also, in terms of group work, there will be some in pretty much every course u take- but the point is there is not a single career out there, especially in the hth fields, tht does Not involve group work- u don't work alone ever, as a doctor, or a lawyer, or any hth care professional...

hope this helps, try to find more upper yr hth scis to talk to, or u could visit the hth sci office too (they are very nice and friendly ppl we get to know over time) in MDCL 3308. good luck!

" higher marks (and thus, usually more hard working) "

WRONG.

They get higher marks because the program is easier, not because they're harder working.

And Life Science is a much better pre-med than Health Science. Why? Because you learn to study hard straight away instead of doing nothing for 4 years and then jumping into med school.

Health Science may have more "med-based" courses, but undergrad moves so slowly that you probably don't even cover much that you'll see again in med school.

okay there are some good arguments. but its comes down to preference.. and what you want to do.

and you can do a minor in any program... it just allows for someone who has a interest in something else to get recognition for it.

It's interesting the number of people who know so much about HealthSci without even being in the program

As for myself, I'm only in first year...and only a month in so I can't really judge lol. I've heard our first year is much easier than others, but once you get into the upper years it sort of evens out.
I wanted to try and defend my program, but honestly anything I tried to say just made me sound like an elitist ******* lol. So just the basics, to answer the original post.
Again, I'm only in first year, and I know the program gets more ...intense.. after this, so my bits might not be really relevant to you since you want to transfer in second year, but... /shrugs, there it is lol

There's a lot of focus on PBL and group work. It's good if you enjoy working for the answer, and teaching yourself beyond what you "have" to know-do research and go beyond the text book to learn and understand. Group work is great if you're going to do your part and be ready to compromise.
Homework is really up to you and your learning style...and the class. Myself, I spend a decent amount of time outside of class on school stuff.

As for med school, if that's what you're aiming for, there's space for electives to get your requirements that aren't covered in the program. And since HealthSci grads do get into med schools, and we'll assume med schools have an idea of what they're doing when they admit people, I'll guess that the program can't be that bad of a prep for med school. Especially since some of the upper year courses are basically the kind of things you take in med school (as I've heard from upper years). Of course that's not to say that any other program is any better or worse at prepping you for medschool.

Anyway, hope that helps with your decision Either way, there are a ton of options no matter what you do.

Ugh, not this again.

I only just got the e-mail saying someone replied now...it might be my computer being silly.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who replied so far, it's good to have a bunch of different opinions flying around. I really do apprechiate it, especially since I have no university contacts I can go to for help - I'm a first gen and I never see the few people I know who got into health sci.

For for the whole med school prep argument, last year Mac admitted 41 Health sci kids and 72 science kids. I'm not sure how many people from science applied, but it seems that Health Sci does have the better percentage, at least at PBL Mac. For U of T and the others, I dunno. Maybe they do much worse in more traditional schools.

As for learning on your own/beyond/etc, I think I'm pretty good with that - right now I'm working on Chem textbook notes. Yes, they are from the textbook, but I am learning it more or less independently (and getting along pretty well). Anyway, the point I'm making is that I can teach myself things, so I think I'll do all right in that aspect.

The one thing that bothers me about Health Sci is the group work aspect. Not so much that i'm not effective in a group - I actually tend to take the leader/organizing position, but how ineffective other people are - for example, I've had a lot of experiences when things are not finished on time, or they are sub-par, etc. I know it'll happen everywhere, regardless of how high everyone's average is and what program they are in...

But, taking a shot in the dark, how are major group projects usually assessed? I know it'll vary, but let's say for this semester, do you have more with one big mark or one with some individual components?

I also realize that it is MY degree and I shouldn't worry about it... but the thing is people like the ones I mentioned above will, in one way or another, figure into mark calculation, and, owing to the near-impossibility of getting into med school, would serious affect my (already silm) chances.

BTW, sorry for sounding like a bit of a creep stalker, but I really want to have a good understanding of what I'm applying for next year, in case I actually do get in and have to make a decision.

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In case it matters at all, I am hoping to get two minors and if I don't get in/don't apply for Health Sci, I'm going for Honours Bio. I would do the Physiology Spec, but I think I'll get a second minor instead and take most of the phys courses anyway.

Considering a lot of the people on this thread at thinking of a health-based career, does anyone have a clue about how minors vs. specializations are viewed in med school admissions? I need every point I can possibly get. The issue here is what appears on the paper. I know what I learn/what to do should be the focus, but since what I want to do is med school, it makes sense to try to groom my degree towards that.

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And samtheman89 I'm not sure what you're refering to, but if it's the post I made at the beginning, please leave me/us alone. I'm sure that if you were in my position, you would want some extra information too, especially being the first person in university from your family. I don't see anything wrong with asking questions and getting help - isn't that one of the founding ideas of this site?

I see that you are in Health Sci too. Would you mind contributing something as well? I'm honestly just trying to learn as much as I can about your program in about the only way I can, since the website, calender, etc. don't give me the sort of specific, inside info I need.