Originally Posted by nerual

There are way more options than life sci, biochem and bio.
Lab experience is what makes an undergrad science degree valuable, far more than the courses you take.

I really didn't find psych to be time consuming nor did it require much effort on my part. The biggest pain was listening to the lectures...but it's not difficult at all. Some people will disagree with me, and that's fine. You won't know how YOU will find the course unless you take it.

Completion of a level 1 program is required for admission into level 2. If you don't take psych 1X03, you're not completing life sci 1. You could get around this by completing any other level 1 program, even one you aren't registered in (such as physical sci, or enviro sci, or whatever). That said, I'm not sure how strict they are about that, you'd have to contact them and ask.

I believe this was covered in other thread. I actually made the mistake of saying that you had to complete Life Science I but another member pointed out that they knew people who did not complete Life Science I (even though they were registered in Life Science I) but the courses they took allowed them to complete one of the other Level I Science programs and they were able to continue to Level II (They had the requirements to enter into a Level II program).

Of course it's always best to obtain the information directly from Academic Advising/Associate Dean's Office.

Originally Posted by jhan523

I don't understand why there are so many questions related to choosing a program and the difficulty of the program. If you are really interested in a certain program then why would you let difficulty get in the way of possibly obtaining a career in that field?

Seriously, just choose your program based on your interest and it'll turn out easier than you expect it to. I left highschool with biology being the lowest mark out of all the science classes, in fact physics and math was my highest marks leaving highschool. But physics just didn't interest me and biology (more specifically genetics) was way more interesting to me. After all 4 years of university, biology courses have always been at my GPA or higher and I'm confident that if I were to purse physics or math (which I found easy in highschool) I would have gotten completely destroyed (Math 1AA3 was a disaster, I had no idea what the hell was going on in that course).

Edit: And even if you plan on going to professional school which isn't related to the program you are interested in, it always helps to have a back-up plan which you are interested in. And perhaps you may even end up doing research in a field related both to the professional school and your undergrad degree.

But I'm interested in both Life Science Honours and biology Honours, which makes sense because they're both really similar. So the next factor that comes into play is the difficulty of each.

But in the booklet I got, for Honours Biology it states that you need Bio 1A03, 1M03, Chem 1AA3, 1A03, Math 1A03/1LS3, and physics 1B03/1L03, and 2 electives from the Life Science I course list. It didn't mention psych at all?

Originally Posted by jhan523

I believe this was covered in other thread. I actually made the mistake of saying that you had to complete Life Science I but another member pointed out that they knew people who did not complete Life Science I (even though they were registered in Life Science I) but the courses they took allowed them to complete one of the other Level I Science programs and they were able to continue to Level II (They had the requirements to enter into a Level II program).

Of course it's always best to obtain the information directly from Academic Advising/Associate Dean's Office.

Yeah, I remembered hearing something similar to that. I wasn't sure if that required permission though (if SOLAR would screw up on registration day), which is why I said to contact them and ask.
I do know plenty of people in life sci who have fulfilled physical sci requirements without a problem, though.

Originally Posted by brady23

But in the booklet I got, for Honours Biology it states that you need Bio 1A03, 1M03, Chem 1AA3, 1A03, Math 1A03/1LS3, and physics 1B03/1L03, and 2 electives from the Life Science I course list. It didn't mention psych at all?

Because psych isn't a requirement for entrance into honours bio...I'm not sure what your question is.

Originally Posted by brady23

But I'm interested in both Life Science Honours and biology Honours, which makes sense because they're both really similar. So the next factor that comes into play is the difficulty of each.

You could also compare the mandatory courses in each program if you haven't done so yet as well as the number of electives you have in each program.

But my post wasn't only directed toward you. I've just noticed an increase in these types of threads (Difficulty in Program vs Program or Course vs Course) and posted a general response to all of them (It just so happened to be in this thread).

I guess I should also add that difficulty is subjective. In pretty much every course you have people that do extremely well (12s) and others that don't do well at all. Even work load is somewhat subjective as time required to study/research can vary greatly between individuals.

Originally Posted by nerual

Because psych isn't a requirement for entrance into honours bio...I'm not sure what your question is.

Oh, that's confusing, because in life science 1 you need psych 1x03, and doesn't life science 1 have to be completed to get entrance to level 2 programs like honours bio?

Originally Posted by jhan523

You could also compare the mandatory courses in each program if you haven't done so yet as well as the number of electives you have in each program.

But my post wasn't only directed toward you. I've just noticed an increase in these types of threads (Difficulty in Program vs Program or Course vs Course) and posted a general response to all of them (It just so happened to be in this thread).

I guess I should also add that difficulty is subjective. In pretty much every course you have people that do extremely well (12s) and others that don't do well at all. Even work load is somewhat subjective as time required to study/research can vary greatly between individuals.

Thank you! I know that it isn't best to go by difficulty, but when I have two very similar programs, and even the courses are interlisted on both programs, I don't know how to choose. And the prerequisites for both are different, that's why I'm trying to figure it out.

Originally Posted by jhan523

You could also compare the mandatory courses in each program if you haven't done so yet as well as the number of electives you have in each program.

But my post wasn't only directed toward you. I've just noticed an increase in these types of threads (Difficulty in Program vs Program or Course vs Course) and posted a general response to all of them (It just so happened to be in this thread).

I guess I should also add that difficulty is subjective. In pretty much every course you have people that do extremely well (12s) and others that don't do well at all. Even work load is somewhat subjective as time required to study/research can vary greatly between individuals.

This.

These types of threads are beginning to drive me mad. It's one thing to ask what the difference is between two programs (I wouldn't put that in the same category), but very few people seem to understand that difficulty is subjective, and asking "is X harder than Y" is useless. Asking "does X course have a lot of essays" because you're terrible at essays and can't write to save your life, is a more useful question and will give you a more useful answer.

Anyways, just my two cents

Originally Posted by brady23

Oh, that's confusing, because in life science 1 you need psych 1x03, and doesn't life science 1 have to be completed to get entrance to level 2 programs like honours bio?

Any level 1 program. Not life sci 1 specifically.

Originally Posted by brady23

Oh, that's confusing, because in life science 1 you need psych 1x03, and doesn't life science 1 have to be completed to get entrance to level 2 programs like honours bio?

No, you can get into Honours Bio with any Level I program. There's also physical science, environmental science, and even Math and Stats. If you complete any of them (You don't actually have to be in them) you should be able to register for Honours Bio. I say "should" because it might not be automatic and you may need to talk to an academic advisor to transfer you to the other Level I program which you will be completing before you register for your courses in Level II.

Originally Posted by nerual

This.

These types of threads are beginning to drive me mad. It's one thing to ask what the difference is between two programs (I wouldn't put that in the same category), but very few people seem to understand that difficulty is subjective, and asking "is X harder than Y" is useless. Asking "does X course have a lot of essays" because you're terrible at essays and can't write to save your life, is a more useful question and will give you a more useful answer.

Anyways, just my two cents

Yeah, I guess it would be smarter of me to ask opinions of people who are actually in the program, since it can be very subjective. Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by nerual

Any level 1 program. Not life sci 1 specifically.

Oh I see
No way I'm doing Math Sci or Physics Sci so Psych 1x03 it is

Originally Posted by brady23

Yeah, I guess it would be smarter of me to ask opinions of people who are actually in the program, since it can be very subjective. Thanks for your help!

That's not what she meant. Unless you are asking someone identical to yourself, what they experience is probably different from what you will experience. You know yourself best, your strengths/weaknesses and how your learn/study. Getting information of the courses themselves (How the testing is done (MC, Essay, Short/Long Answer, Application), what kind of assignments/labs there are, if a textbook or research is required, etc) will be more informative for you than opinions (which are subjective themselves).

You don't need to take psych 1XX3 to get into life sci II program. You can get a conditional acceptance, as long as you finish psych 1XX3 by the end of second year. I know people who got into life sci II and completed psych 1xx3 in the summer.

according to the undergrad calendar, http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /calen...13/pg1957.html
you can complete psych 1X03 and 1XX3 by the end of second year if you wish

i would personally go with life sci, because of the flexibility - you're not "forced" to take as many (edit) required courses - you totally get to customize your degree - and you can sill take mol bio, biochem courses, although some courses are only open to people of that program.

p.s psych 1x03/1xx3 were really good - they are well organized
all of the lectures are online - you can watch them as many times as you wish
check it out: http://intropsych.net/
i think they took down the lectures for now, not sure why since the summer classes are still running

i'd recommend psych 1x03/1xx3 because then you get to take some really neat psych courses in 2nd/3rd year, ex: abnormal psych, clinical neuroscience, sensory processes, evolution and human behaviour, motivation and emotion, forensic psychology