Originally Posted by EngStud

The main issue is tuition cost. Now some people may argue that it can be payed back and that govt is generous with loans.

That doesn't really matter...

The issue is FAIRNESS. It is not fair for Quebec engineering students to pay a third of what Ontario students pay in Engineering studies when the quality of education is the same if not better in Quebec.

We live in ONE Nation. Provinces shouldn't be competing for education. We're not Quebecois or Ontarians, we're all Canadians.

We should all be paying the same amount of tuition regarding a certain degree.

If Waterloo wants to make their tuition 1k more because they have a better Co-op system, that's fine.

Let the free markets decide (Supply vs Demand, Price vs Quality...). Don't let provinces get in the game of subsidizing tuition so one province gets a better deal when the quality is almost the same.

I believe you're contradicting yourself when you say tuition amounts should be the same for a certain degree, while later you say that free markets should decide.

Personally, I believe in the free market and government shouldn't regulate costs. When government starts capping tuition fees, schools are now forced to work within a particular budget, and the quality of education becomes affected. I believe schools should operate like a business, with students as its customers. It is totally backwards right now--Professors, TAs and school staff should be kissing our asses for our money (not disrespect us like they do now). Judging from my experience at Mac, it takes way too long for an incompetent professor to be fired.

I have no issue with Ontario tuition fees being higher than Quebec even if Quebec has better quality education, because this is likely due to higher demand in Ontario. Likewise, students have the freedom to attend schools in Quebec if they want to. That is what free market is all about.

Lastly, for the students who have trouble affording post-secondary education, I believe the OSAP system addresses this problem (although I'm sure there are critics out there).

Originally Posted by EngStud

...The issue is FAIRNESS. It is not fair for Quebec engineering students to pay a third of what Ontario students pay in Engineering studies..

All provincial governments fund public universities, and Quebec probably does that more than others. That's why Quebec residents pay such low amounts. But they had to get their money somehow to achieve this, which can partially be explained by the 14.5% tax rate in Quebec compared to 13 in Ontario.

Originally Posted by EngStud

...

The issue is FAIRNESS. It is not fair for Quebec engineering students to pay a third of what Ontario students pay in Engineering studies when the quality of education is the same if not better in Quebec...

Why don't you move to Québec then? Seems like the logical choice.

Originally Posted by RyanC

Why don't you move to Québec then? Seems like the logical choice.

If he does, he'll be paying the Out-of-province fee, which is probably the same amount or more than most universities in Ontario. So much for fairness.

I think we should all just get along.

if the government stopped subsidizing an incredible amount of the loans you'd see far more people actually thinking about the potential risks and the potential gains from going to school.

also, i really think more people in canada should look at the trades/apprenticeships/college instead of just going into university and being pigeonholed into a generic business/humanities/social science degree

like germany!

Originally Posted by _Luu_

If he does, he'll be paying the Out-of-province fee, which is probably the same amount or more than most universities in Ontario. So much for fairness.

That's my point, I'll be paying a fee (excluding living costs) which equate Ontario's education costs to Quebec's education costs.

All the extra payment because I wasn't born in Quebec.

Originally Posted by Allan

I believe you're contradicting yourself when you say tuition amounts should be the same for a certain degree, while later you say that free markets should decide.

I think I made myself very clear. However, some people can't comprehend the only language they speak.

Let me quote myself....

"Let the free markets decide (Supply vs Demand, Price vs Quality...). Don't let provinces get in the game of subsidizing tuition so one province gets a better deal when the quality is almost the same."

In a free market, if Quebec get's a lower price, that would be because some programs have a lesser quality than some Mac programs for example.

I was saying that if govt gets involved, then make it the same cost for the same quality.

Less demand for Quebec Universities ? Are you effin kidding me ?

Polytechnique, McGill... The demand is actually pretty damn high. Under free markets, the cost for an engineering degree would be the same if not higher than Mac's eng degree.

Query: Why do students of Quebec pay less than students in Ontario?
Answer: Nobody wants to live in Quebec.

http://fullcomment.nationalp ost.co...ebec-students/

Originally Posted by EngStud

"Let the free markets decide (Supply vs Demand, Price vs Quality...). Don't let provinces get in the game of subsidizing tuition so one province gets a better deal when the quality is almost the same."

In a free market, if Quebec get's a lower price, that would be because some programs have a lesser quality than some Mac programs for example.

I was saying that if govt gets involved, then make it the same cost for the same quality.

Less demand for Quebec Universities ? Are you effin kidding me ?

Polytechnique, McGill... The demand is actually pretty damn high. Under free markets, the cost for an engineering degree would be the same if not higher than Mac's eng degree.

I believe free market prices are determined generally be supply/demand depending on the geographic location, and doesn't necessarily mean that products/services of equal quality need to have the same prices in different geographic locations.

For example, the same goods/services in the US always seem to be cheaper than Canada. Although there are many factors that cause this, the supply is higher in the US and I believe that at the end of the day, Canadians are willing to pay more than US consumers. I have no issues with this. Canadians are willing to spend more, and companies are willing to charge more, its a mutual agreement.

Now, getting back to tuition costs. It's important to compare non-subsidized figures, as different provinces offer different subsidies and it skews the actual cost of tuition. There is nothing wrong with Quebec offering more subsidies for education than Ontario. Individual provinces/communities have the right to choose where to spend their tax dollars. If Quebec is spending more tax dollars in education, then it is spending less in other areas (health care, economy, infrastructure, R&D, etc.). Now guess why out-of-province students don't get to enjoy the same subsidies? Because they never pooled their money together with all the other provincial taxpayers, so they shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. That is what is truly fair...you don't get something for nothing.

You could be right about Quebec universities having higher demand, I really don't know. But I would have thought there are more international students applying to Ontario universities.

Originally Posted by Allan

I believe free market prices are determined generally be supply/demand depending on the geographic location, and doesn't necessarily mean that products/services of equal quality need to have the same prices in different geographic locations.

You could be right about Quebec universities having higher demand, I really don't know. But I would have thought there are more international students applying to Ontario universities.

1)If govt gets to subsidize, then make it federal so tuition is somewhat equal.
2)If not, then let free markets decide the price.

You have to remember that Quebec's budget and Ontario's budget are different. Will Quebec be at a disadvantage for reducing tuition costs ? Maybe. However, it puts Quebec Engineering Students (example those at Polytechnique) at a greater financial advantage than McMaster Eng Students.

They will probably get the same kind of jobs but they will have a small debt to pay. +Financial Advantage.

Let's assume Quebecers have a Health disadvantage. Well if a Quebecer gets his degree in Montreal and works in Toronto, I don't think that disadvantage matters.

Infrastructure + Health cons will affect Quebec students who stay there. In my previous example, the student is at a complete advantage if he/she decides to move and work in Ontario.

Again, we are talking about a personal finances. Health is covered by both provinces, infrastructure isn't that much of a deal. For students, what matters is how much they are going to be debt.

When talking about Quebec, one thing I always find interesting is that paradoxically despite having the lowest tuition fees that province also has the lowest participation rate at 20%, whereas the province with the highest tuition fees aka Ontario and Nova Scotia have the highest participation rate. Hence the corelation between accessibility and tuition fees doesn't seem to be "perfectly" correlated.

Just so that people know some of the history behind the CFS (Canadian Federation of Students, which is the national group organizing the "Student Day of Action" on February 1st).... take a look at this blog post, which discusses some of the history behind the CFS' actions when it comes to student issues, in this specific case tuition freezes:

http://engineersagainstthecf s.word...e-engineering/

Quick summary of the article: University of Manitoba went through a tuition freeze from 1999 - 2009. In 2007, their engineering department ran out of funding. The Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board (CEAB) got involved, and issued a warning to the university stating that if the situation wasn’t corrected, the program would risk losing its accreditation. Engineering students launched the "Save Engineering" campaign, to increase their fees by $40 per credit, to help them keep their accreditation.
The CFS & the University of Manitoba Students’ Union ran a "No" campaign to the fee increase, and have stood by the opinion that tuition freezes should happen, even if engineering programs have to lose their accreditation in the process. (Without accreditation, an engineering program is pretty much useless, and severely hurts the faculty/university's reputation)

Tuition freezes and lower tuition might look nice & pretty at first glance, but think about the effects that these things can have on our education, and make sure to become informed about all aspects of the issue.

You are already getting a cheap education compared to other countries and what the actual price of your education should be if the government didn't make it cheaper.


Universities are a business and need to make money so the only way you'll get a cheaper education is from the government. 1) I rather the government spend it on other things. 2) Don't rely too heavily on your government.

Therefore be quiet. Spoiled kids these days.....