Originally Posted by huzaifa47

I am aware of that! The thing is that IF we want to use Bandwidth/resources from MUSS to be reallocated to MUGSI/SOLAR we need to completely replace it with Googe Apps Suite, we can't go half and half and try and integrate both into MUSS(Which was the impression I got at admin they might be open too,long story). We would love to have that and there has been precedent of universities doing that, but I'm not sure whether a more conservative McMaster university admin will go for it; but that conservatism seems enigmatic of McMaster as a community in my opinion. On one hand we pride on being an innovative research based institution and on the other hand we are not that big fan's of administrative change. Same with MSU, we are one of the very few Ontario Universities not to have online voting for MSU elections! :(

Thanks for clarifying the confusion with that point.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to using Google Apps Suite, but I do share concerns with Ash about the security. Does your team by any chance have documentation about the other Universities using it or that address the privacy concerns? I use g-mail personally so I'm probably not as concerned about the privacy of the severs being in the US, operated by Google etc but can I feel secure that my education information will be private with Google Apps Suite?

I know this has been discussed a bit but I would like to know specifics on the privacy issue, would it be absolutely secure?

Originally Posted by sew12

Thanks for clarifying the confusion with that point.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to using Google Apps Suite, but I do share concerns with Ash about the security. Does your team by any chance have documentation about the other Universities using it or that address the privacy concerns? I use g-mail personally so I'm probably not as concerned about the privacy of the severs being in the US, operated by Google etc but can I feel secure that my education information will be private with Google Apps Suite?

I know this has been discussed a bit but I would like to know specifics on the privacy issue, would it be absolutely secure?

We will get back to you in a bit, Ash actually raised security and logistical concerns about Cloud Computing(Which is for MUGSI/SOLAR) and not Google Apps Suite. I am not the expert on Google Apps Suite because I haven't been researching that at all(My area is Registration systems), that is Kieran's idea; he will get back to you when he comes from class talks/talking to students later today.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

We will get back to you in a bit, Ash actually raised security and logistical concerns about Cloud Computing(Which is for MUGSI/SOLAR) and not Google Apps Suite. I am not the expert on Google Apps Suite because I haven't been researching that at all(My area is Registration systems), that is Kieran's idea; he will get back to you when he comes from class talks/talking to students later today.

Oh okay, others have raised security concerns about using Google's servers for our e-mail though right, on this board?

I look forward to hearing more from Kieran on the Google Apps Suite idea. I like Google Apps for my personal use, and while I'm more concerned about MUGSI/SOLAR I would still like to hear more about potential plans to use Google instead of MUSS. Security would be my only hesitation about using the suite, since instead of keeping our information on campus, here in Canada it would be on Google's servers in the U.S. Although I agree with whoever mentioned in another thread that if the Patriot Act is not renewed I would feel better about it.

In any case I really enjoyed hearing Kieran speak at today's debate. I was already interested in his platform prior but I liked hearing his responses. He was not as I expected him based on seeing his posters and briefly glimpsing him in the student centre prior to today. I mean that in a good way though. I found him to be very sincere and genuine, I think he was good at defending his platform for the most part. I am slightly concerned about his inexperience but he does seem to be on top of learning about the organization, and on the other hand with his inexperience comes more of a feeling that he really represents regular students. I feel often disconnected from our representatives and Kieran seemed less distant in a way.

Hey Kieran. Just a quick suggestion, take from it what you will.

Anyways, you've come to a couple of my classes so far and I don't mind, but today's speech particularly irritated me.

You said something along the lines "not everyone gets to have as great as a teacher as this one."

I dunno if you used that catchphrase in all your other lectures, but I think maybe you should learn the professor's names before making your speech?

I dunno, it seemed... generic, I guess. I just feel it'd make one hell of an impact, especially considering how little work is required.

Hi Kieran,

I just wanted to clarify one of your answers at the MSU Presidential Debate today. One of the questions addressed the use of "dirty politics" when campaigning. Your answer was roughly that you don't like or approve of them, but that it is difficult to control the actions of your supporters.

Over the past week, I've noticed the your campaign team members are some of the most active in criticizing other candidates on their facebook groups or macinsider threads. I don't mean simply questioning a candidate's platform, but actively attacking (or purposely misunderstanding) a platform in order to make it appear absurd. I view these actions as a more subtle form of dirty politics than overtly defaming other candidates.

I think this approach lacks integrity. What concerns me is that a presidential candidate who disagrees with smear tactics should have enough leadership within his or her campaign team to avoid them. As your team members obviously employ these tactics, I can only conclude that either you lack leadership of your campaign team, or that you approve of this approach and allow your team members to use it while keeping your own name clean.

Originally Posted by rocket

Hi Kieran,

I just wanted to clarify one of your answers at the MSU Presidential Debate today. One of the questions addressed the use of "dirty politics" when campaigning. Your answer was roughly that you don't like or approve of them, but that it is difficult to control the actions of your supporters.

Over the past week, I've noticed the your campaign team members are some of the most active in criticizing other candidates on their facebook groups or macinsider threads. I don't mean simply questioning a candidate's platform, but actively attacking (or purposely misunderstanding) a platform in order to make it appear absurd. I view these actions as a more subtle form of dirty politics than overtly defaming other candidates.

I think this approach lacks integrity. What concerns me is that a presidential candidate who disagrees with smear tactics should have enough leadership within his or her campaign team to avoid them. As your team members obviously employ these tactics, I can only conclude that either you lack leadership of your campaign team, or that you approve of this approach and allow your team members to use it while keeping your own name clean.

Ok, I'm going to call BS here. Provide some links before making these claims. Every member of Kieran's team who I have seen posting (myself included) has been sincere and honest. While they may have pointed out why a poorly thought out/researched idea is not possible, they have not misconstrued any points. Attacking an unrealistic promise because it is logically unsound is not a "dirty" campaign tactic.

As well, I'm not trying to be rude, but it's really tough to take an accusation of dirty politics seriously by an individual who creates an account without a name in order to make a jab at a candidate. All of my posts have been based on my experiences with candidates or my opinion on the feasibility of their platform and to be fair - at least I have the integrity to include my name with my posts.

Originally Posted by McIntyre

As well, I'm not trying to be rude, but it's really tough to take an accusation of dirty politics seriously by an individual who creates an account without a name in order to make a jab at a candidate. All of my posts have been based on my experiences with candidates or my opinion on the feasibility of their platform and to be fair - at least I have the integrity to include my name with my posts.

Yes but that doesn't stop people with connections to a certain other campaign from turning every criticism of his credibility as a candidate and his policies into an accusation of dirty politics and personal attacks. It doesn't impress me much at all. Real politics (and life) is much dirtier than anything I've seen in the MSU and its immature to avoid discussion of your candidate by claiming that every less than stellar comment about him is dirty politics. (Despite the fact that one of his supporters DID in fact engage in some pretty nasty mud slinging against a Keiran supporter). After hearing this candidate's supporters cry wolf so much I am disinclined to believe this isn't more of the same.

It just screams of desperation.

There is a real problem this year with candidates mistaking honest criticism with dirty campaigning, and I truly don't understand this.

What I would consider a dirty tactic is when people create anonymous MacInsiders accounts simply to post such things. Not only is it cowardly, it's pathetic. If you have an opinion, and want to put yourself in the public light, then stand up for your opinion.

This election should be won by the issues, and unfortunately sometimes these issues can be negative because of the situations involved. But if we don't engage in this type of discourse, people get away with lies, and the MSU again has will have a Presidency where students are disappointed and get jaded.

We need real criticism to show the real strengths of people as well as the real weaknesses. Legitimate candidates will weather the storm, and will look much better because they form better opinions, learn more from their detractors, and turn this around into positive change.

That's Presidential. Ryan Moran never got angry about people criticizing him. He took them head on, and changed a lot of people's opinions of him. He was a real President, and that's what I want.

Originally Posted by rocket

Hi Kieran,

I just wanted to clarify one of your answers at the MSU Presidential Debate today. One of the questions addressed the use of "dirty politics" when campaigning. Your answer was roughly that you don't like or approve of them, but that it is difficult to control the actions of your supporters.

Over the past week, I've noticed the your campaign team members are some of the most active in criticizing other candidates on their facebook groups or macinsider threads. I don't mean simply questioning a candidate's platform, but actively attacking (or purposely misunderstanding) a platform in order to make it appear absurd. I view these actions as a more subtle form of dirty politics than overtly defaming other candidates.

I think this approach lacks integrity. What concerns me is that a presidential candidate who disagrees with smear tactics should have enough leadership within his or her campaign team to avoid them. As your team members obviously employ these tactics, I can only conclude that either you lack leadership of your campaign team, or that you approve of this approach and allow your team members to use it while keeping your own name clean.

Hey Rocket,

Thank you for sharing your concerns and welcome to MacInsiders!

For those people who have been regularly been on MacInsiders for long enough will know that both Rohan and myself are people with strong opinions about the MSU and its workings. It is fueled by both our huge interest in the MSU(Myself as an SRA member and Rohan as a former PTM), but this interest is piqued by the amount of time we have spent talking to people and researching and following what is going on in the MSU. Our Critique of other platforms is always based on personal knowledge or direct research and it is not us trying to "intentionally" misunderstand any platform.

We both are social science students with strong belief in intellectual discourse and that nothing should be taken at face value and everything has an anti thesis. I naturally found issues with some points that I asked for clarification with or suggested their infeasibility. However as Rohan mentioned people take criticism different ways, and some like Ash for example has responded very well and even encouraged questioning.

As Marlowe said, provide examples as to the claims you are making, in the mean time I would suggest you stop making such defaming statements on Kieran's integrity. Kieran trusts both of us and our knowledge hence it is not at all sign of weak leadership.

Hey Step.. err.. rocket.

Mary has a new blog post up regarding the insinuations that we are engaging in dirty campaigning.

--

TO EVERYONE ELSE. Thanks to the work of an SRA member who was already researching these situation for the Operations Committee, the MSU has a formal commitment from the Chief Information Officer (aka the guy who is in charge of all the computer systems at Mac) that he will engage in research alongside the MSU into Google Apps and cloud computing if there is an MSU who will push for it!

It's the first step in the process towards fruition! Now all we need is Kieran in Presidency to work further on those goals.

Here's the letter in question: http://kieran2010.com/CIO_letter.pdf

Good morning!!
I just wanted to encourage everyone to come and talk to Kieran's team We are all very dedicated and would love to share with you why we chose to support Kieran Alkteron for MSU President. You can find us in various locations over campus (look for our red tshirts that say Kerian2010) or at our campaign headqs in the Student Center!! As well if you have any questions regrading the platform, don't hesitate to email [email protected] or ask on here OR Kieran Alkerton on FB. It's OUR Turn McMaster!!!!

Originally Posted by sew12

Oh okay, others have raised security concerns about using Google's servers for our e-mail though right, on this board?

I look forward to hearing more from Kieran on the Google Apps Suite idea. I like Google Apps for my personal use, and while I'm more concerned about MUGSI/SOLAR I would still like to hear more about potential plans to use Google instead of MUSS. Security would be my only hesitation about using the suite, since instead of keeping our information on campus, here in Canada it would be on Google's servers in the U.S. Although I agree with whoever mentioned in another thread that if the Patriot Act is not renewed I would feel better about it.

In any case I really enjoyed hearing Kieran speak at today's debate. I was already interested in his platform prior but I liked hearing his responses. He was not as I expected him based on seeing his posters and briefly glimpsing him in the student centre prior to today. I mean that in a good way though. I found him to be very sincere and genuine, I think he was good at defending his platform for the most part. I am slightly concerned about his inexperience but he does seem to be on top of learning about the organization, and on the other hand with his inexperience comes more of a feeling that he really represents regular students. I feel often disconnected from our representatives and Kieran seemed less distant in a way.

Hey Stefanie,

Thanks for you concern, the security issues are something that we are still discussing and definitely something to explore during negotiations with Google. But from my understanding, the privacy issues in this case are the exact same as using a gmail account for your regular email.

When UTS would create Google accounts for students, they would simply upload spreadsheets with user names, real names, and temporary passwords. This wouldn't tie your MacID account to Google, nor would it give them access to your information, it would simply use the same username as your MacID. Again, this is just my layman's opinion based on our research.

-Kieran

Just to add to what Kieran said, the CIO mentioned that IF the MSU wants to push for Google Apps he will need to hire specialized researchers also called integration specialists who will evaluate every aspect of our IT infrastructure and the registrars office and come up with the plan for integrating google apps. However he reckoned it won't take alot of time, in other cases it has taken as less as 4 months. He even said that if the MSU acts fast enough he could get it done by Fall 2010 under ideal circumstances.

In other words while there will be a student presence then entire research into issues like privacy would be done by people with proper knowledge

Who exactly would be footing the bill for these Integration Specialists? Don't you think that the CIO would expect the MSU to cover at least a fraction of these costs? Moreover, how will this be feasible once the budget is finalized?