[ice8]

Originally Posted by Jason036

I agree with that, I wouldn't mind keeping Kaberle, as I feel he is the type of defenceman that any team can use. He is very underrated.

The team overall on paper looks very good, but the chemistry is just not there.

The game last night shows the inconsistency this team has. They can beat a top team like Montreal 3-1, then lose to Edmonton 5-0....)

Thing with Edmontno is they are a good team. They will beat you if you dont put in effort against them. Leafs should beat Edm and Calgary this week hopefully if they bring in the effort.

I think they should trade Kaberle, Komisarek, and Beauchemin for picks and prospects and let the young kids learn and develop. See if they can sign valuable free agents who can provide leadership this offseason (i would like brad richards but i doubt that will happen...Richards has said he likes TO and wont mind playing for them). He can be a great mentor for players like Kadri and Bozak.

Anyways save our first round picks from now on, and let the kids play and learn their game. They will be inconsistent but its part of the learning process.

[Jason036]

Originally Posted by ice8

Thing with Edmontno is they are a good team. They will beat you if you dont put in effort against them. Leafs should beat Edm and Calgary this week hopefully if they bring in the effort.

I don't understand why you think Edmonton is a good team? They're like 26th right now? They have been on a bit of a tear lately, winning something like 5 of 7 games...but I don't think they are a good team. Too inexperienced...howev er they will be a force in the future.... I guess they still are better than the Leafs lol

[gOOCHTOPHER]

i dont know what burkes deal is with getting secondary role guys and for some reason expecting them to step up and carry the team as first line players
so what if these guys won a cup
versteeg is a solid pker, but thats all
is it a wonder that kessel was a health scratch in boston, hes terrible defensively, kadri should have been up long ago
beachumin probably looked real good behind neidermeyer and pronger in anahiem, shutting down those second lines
komi is just garbage, i hope lucic beats him up again
phanuef is not at all the player he once was, naming him captain was terrible

the oilers have a similar record to the leafs and yet they are in a way tougher conference, spending around less than 10 mil, and dont have a veteran like souray

the leafs have horrible defense and no powerforwards and few grinders, spend too much time in your own end and less time on the attack and its gg

[ice8]

Originally Posted by Jason036

I don't understand why you think Edmonton is a good team? They're like 26th right now? They have been on a bit of a tear lately, winning something like 5 of 7 games...but I don't think they are a good team. Too inexperienced...howev er they will be a force in the future.... I guess they still are better than the Leafs lol

If edmonton was in the east they will be a lot higher than 26th. I have seen Oilers play last few games and they are a fast team with skill. The problem is their D is horrible, and they lack consistency like the leafs (inexperience). I still believe leafs should beat them if leafs play like they did against Boston and 1st period against Mtl.

[bcars]

Originally Posted by gOOCHTOPHER

i dont know what burkes deal is with getting secondary role guys and for some reason expecting them to step up and carry the team as first line players
so what if these guys won a cup
versteeg is a solid pker, but thats all
is it a wonder that kessel was a health scratch in boston, hes terrible defensively, kadri should have been up long ago
beachumin probably looked real good behind neidermeyer and pronger in anahiem, shutting down those second lines
komi is just garbage, i hope lucic beats him up again
phanuef is not at all the player he once was, naming him captain was terrible

the oilers have a similar record to the leafs and yet they are in a way tougher conference, spending around less than 10 mil, and dont have a veteran like souray

the leafs have horrible defense and no powerforwards and few grinders, spend too much time in your own end and less time on the attack and its gg

I don't even know where to begin....

Burke doesn't expect them to step up. He's rebuilding. You need role players that can grow with the team. Right now, only 3 players have more than two full seasons with the Leafs: Kaberle, Schenn and Kulemin. That's how much of a mess Burke was left with from JFJ.

How can you call Versteeg just a solid PK'er? You actually rarely see him on the PK... he's a valuable asset on the PP and he's got 9 goals already. What'd you expect out of him, 30 goals? He's on pace to net about 25, more than we thought we would get from him. Kessel should be able to get 30 still easily.

How about MacArthur, or were you too busy bashing the team you're a "fan" of to notice that our top scorer is being paid $1.1 million a year? Or that our second line might just be the best in the NHL right now in terms of second-line forwards (MacArthur, Kulemin, Grabovski)?

Do you even know what Beauchemin brings? He is not a shut down defenceman. He's offensive minded, and he has no more defensive lapses than most offensive defenders. I admit I don't like him but I don't hate him.

Have to agree on Komi, so far he's a dud.

But give me a break on Phaneuf, the guy hasn't even played that much. He's a consistent presence and isn't far removed from his Norris-nominated season. He hasn't adjusted, and doesn't have forwards up front to screen for him. His shot is there.

You can't say the leafs have the worst defence... we are still among the league's top half in goals against. We have quality D-men, but need more help for the forwards.

Kind of ironic that your only positive note in here about Kadri is idiotic. Why should he have been up long ago? What has he brought to the team, six assists? And that's enough to bring him up? He's not a difference maker yet. He needs experience and rushing him into the NHL won't make it come any faster.

Also, you're incredibly dumb for saying the West is much tougher. Not this year. Look at the gap between 8th and 9th in the East. It's insane. 5 of the top 6 teams in the NHL are in the East, and the leafs just beat 3 of them (Washington, Montreal and Boston). West is a logjam of mediocrity; 3 points separate 3rd and 12th. And the Oilers are below that level of mediocrity. At least the Leafs have some company in the basement of the East.

Have some optimism man, holy ****.

[gOOCHTOPHER]

Originally Posted by bcars

I don't even know where to begin....

Burke doesn't expect them to step up. He's rebuilding. You need role players that can grow with the team. Right now, only 3 players have more than two full seasons with the Leafs: Kaberle, Schenn and Kulemin. That's how much of a mess Burke was left with from JFJ.

How can you call Versteeg just a solid PK'er? You actually rarely see him on the PK... he's a valuable asset on the PP and he's got 9 goals already. What'd you expect out of him, 30 goals? He's on pace to net about 25, more than we thought we would get from him. Kessel should be able to get 30 still easily.

How about MacArthur, or were you too busy bashing the team you're a "fan" of to notice that our top scorer is being paid $1.1 million a year? Or that our second line might just be the best in the NHL right now in terms of second-line forwards (MacArthur, Kulemin, Grabovski)?

Do you even know what Beauchemin brings? He is not a shut down defenceman. He's offensive minded, and he has no more defensive lapses than most offensive defenders. I admit I don't like him but I don't hate him.

Have to agree on Komi, so far he's a dud.

But give me a break on Phaneuf, the guy hasn't even played that much. He's a consistent presence and isn't far removed from his Norris-nominated season. He hasn't adjusted, and doesn't have forwards up front to screen for him. His shot is there.

You can't say the leafs have the worst defence... we are still among the league's top half in goals against. We have quality D-men, but need more help for the forwards.

Kind of ironic that your only positive note in here about Kadri is idiotic. Why should he have been up long ago? What has he brought to the team, six assists? And that's enough to bring him up? He's not a difference maker yet. He needs experience and rushing him into the NHL won't make it come any faster.

Also, you're incredibly dumb for saying the West is much tougher. Not this year. Look at the gap between 8th and 9th in the East. It's insane. 5 of the top 6 teams in the NHL are in the East, and the leafs just beat 3 of them (Washington, Montreal and Boston). West is a logjam of mediocrity; 3 points separate 3rd and 12th. And the Oilers are below that level of mediocrity. At least the Leafs have some company in the basement of the East.

Have some optimism man, holy ****.

rofl dont call me idiotic
the leafs are NOT in a rebuild, edmonton is in a rebuild, the leafs traded their top 3 picks for last year and this year, this is not a rebuild, it is more like a retooling, i hope you understand this, hes expecting his teams to make the playoffs ffs

and no wrong wrong wrong, the east is not competitive like the west, saying 5/6 top teams are in the east is good evidence? rofl no, its tight for who are the top teams, and if you want you can turn the argument around and say the worst 5 teams are in the east
its like that because the west has more competition as I said and the playoff race is so wide open every year, while the east has consistently had some terrible teams, and some decent ones
your seeing a few good teams in the east capitalize of terrible teams in the east
west has dominated inter conference play this year just like every year
http://www.ontheforecheck.co m/2010...the-best-again
the leafs are in a pretty easy division too

burke is managing the team better in terms of not giving out huge unwarratned contracts, although some of them sucked, they wont entirely burn the team in the longterm, however i think the kessel deal was a failure because of its timing, it was a waste and hes been burned

and kardi is 20, imo he should be up, especially when you already have turnover queens in kessel, versteeg and gabro not like he will kill the team

[gOOCHTOPHER]

u mad? call me when dion decides to hit the net

[ice8]

Originally Posted by gOOCHTOPHER

rofl dont call me idiotic
the leafs are NOT in a rebuild, edmonton is in a rebuild, the leafs traded their top 3 picks for last year and this year, this is not a rebuild, it is more like a retooling, i hope you understand this, hes expecting his teams to make the playoffs ffs

and no wrong wrong wrong, the east is not competitive like the west, saying 5/6 top teams are in the east is good evidence? rofl no, its tight for who are the top teams, and if you want you can turn the argument around and say the worst 5 teams are in the east
its like that because the west has more competition as I said and the playoff race is so wide open every year, while the east has consistently had some terrible teams, and some decent ones
your seeing a few good teams in the east capitalize of terrible teams in the east
west has dominated inter conference play this year just like every year
http://www.ontheforecheck.co m/2010...the-best-again
the leafs are in a pretty easy division too

burke is managing the team better in terms of not giving out huge unwarratned contracts, although some of them sucked, they wont entirely burn the team in the longterm, however i think the kessel deal was a failure because of its timing, it was a waste and hes been burned

and kardi is 20, imo he should be up, especially when you already have turnover queens in kessel, versteeg and gabro not like he will kill the team

leafs are in a rebuild. So what if they dont wanna do it with the picks? They are still replacing every single player with a younger better player who has a higher potential.

There is more than one way to rebuild in this league.

[gOOCHTOPHER]

Originally Posted by ice8

leafs are in a rebuild. So what if they dont wanna do it with the picks? They are still replacing every single player with a younger better player who has a higher potential.

There is more than one way to rebuild in this league.

cause this is the way the hawks, caps, pens rebuilt, and the way tampa and carolina rebuilt to win their cups

trading your top 3 picks for kessel is the opposite of replacing players with younger and higher potential players

burke needs to learn some patience and run his team his team similar to detroit and vancouver

[manap3000]

Originally Posted by gOOCHTOPHER

cause this is the way the hawks, caps, pens rebuilt, and the way tampa and carolina rebuilt to win their cups

trading your top 3 picks for kessel is the opposite of replacing players with younger and higher potential players

burke needs to learn some patience and run his team his team similar to detroit and vancouver

if you wanna see where no patience leads you look at the raptors, 3 years ago we had chris bosh and the #1 draft pick.........we're last in the league now.

[ice8]

Originally Posted by gOOCHTOPHER

cause this is the way the hawks, caps, pens rebuilt, and the way tampa and carolina rebuilt to win their cups

trading your top 3 picks for kessel is the opposite of replacing players with younger and higher potential players

burke needs to learn some patience and run his team his team similar to detroit and vancouver

How are the ny islanders,florida doing? and havent wsh been eliminated on first round and on a 7 game slide right now? Yes draft gets you core players, but you still need to make trades for role players.

It was definitely Burke's fault on Kessel. He traded for him too early especially since he had no plans for acquiring a top line center.

[gOOCHTOPHER]

i think washington fields a great team, imo its budreau who is the problem there, double shift ovie is his only strat , and they have weak goaltending

and with the islanders, you know that guy with the pointy nose on hnic? mike milbury was once the gm for the islander
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Milbury=
"He has traded away defensemen Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden, Bryan Berard, Eric Brewer, Darius Kasparaitis, and Bryan McCabe; goalies Roberto Luongo and Tommy Salo, as well as forwards Olli Jokinen, Todd Bertuzzi, Tim Connolly, and Raffi Torres. Milbury has also come under fire for his draft day decisions such as choosing Rick DiPietro first overall in 2000 over Dany Heatley and Marian Gaborik; as well as his decision to include the 2001 second overall draft pick (Jason Spezza) as part of the Alexei Yashin trade."
they also signed stupidly long contracts to diepetro and yashin

florida
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Panthers

"On June 23, 2006, the Panthers were again involved in a blockbuster trade with the Vancouver Canucks, sending Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, and a sixth-round draft pick (Sergei Shirokov) in exchange for Todd Bertuzzi, Alex Auld, and Bryan Allen. This trade has been regarded by some as one of the worst trades in professional sports history. Luongo who was and still is at the prime of his career is one of the top goalies in the NHL. Bertuzzi only played a handful of games for the Cats before getting injured. He would be traded to Detroit Red Wings at the trade deadline for Shawn Matthias. Alex Auld ended up being a poor replacement for the Panthers former franchise goalie and was let go after one season."

"The Panthers then started coveting defenceman Jay Bouwmeester, who was widely tipped to be picked first overall in the 2002 draft. But then-General Manager Rick Dudley sent Florida's first pick to the Columbus Blue Jackets, who took winger Rick Nash. The Atlanta Thrashers, after picking goalie Kari Lehtonen second overall, announced that the Panthers had given them two draft picks to guarantee that Bouwmeester would still be available for Florida's selection. Bouwmeester was selected third overall by the Panthers. Said then-head coach Mike Keenan, "We shouldn’t have done that ... Jay would have been number-one if we'd kept that pick."[2]

[bcars]

You are an idiot.

First of all about the West. You originally said it was tougher, then when I disagreed you said I was wrong, that the west was more competitive. There's a difference between tough and competitive. I never said the West was not competitive.

Secondly, trading draft picks can be a rebuild. Burke didn't anticipate finishing so poorly last year, we had a very good defence and what should have been good goaltending if Toskala didn't have his complete mental breakdown. Burke traded that year's pick and this year because this year's crop of draftees is the weakest it's been in nearly a decade. To acquire a 21-year old (at the time) who is one of the fastest snipers in the NHL when he's on his game was a smart move. Kessel is still young and was basically a prospect at the time. We've seen him maturing in the last few games, showing a bit more confidence on the ice despite not tallying many goals.

Next, how can you say the Leafs are in an easy division? With the Bruins and Canadiens? Are you dense? An easy division is the Northwest Division, since Minnesota, Calgary and Edmonton have all been horrible this year.

Kessel, Grabovski and Versteeg are turnover queens? And the solution is a 20 year old rookie dangler? Do you ever watch the sport of hockey or do you just pretend, so that you can troll people on forums? Kadri has only played half of the games that Phil Kessel has, but yet has more turnovers. Versteeg only has 12 turnovers in 32 games. Pull your head out of your ass and quit acting like you know anything about the Leafs.


Finally:

"burke needs to learn some patience and run his team his team similar to detroit and vancouver"

Dude... Burke used to run Vancouver. He brought in most of their key players. The Sedin twins was his chef d'oeuvre.

As the last guy said... draft doesn't ensure you success. Tyler Seguin has not been very impressive so far this year, so so far, the Leafs have still won that trade. You can look at teams who have had multiple opportunities to draft high... Columbus, Atlanta, Carolina, Florida, NY Islanders, St. Louis, Minnesota... and none of those teams can make the playoffs for more than one year in a row (and most of those teams haven't made the playoffs once since the lockout.)

If you're going to (pretend) to formulate a real argument, start by fixing your horrible spelling and grammar.

[nonikhanna]

wilson has lebda as a forward tonight on the 4th line. might not be that bad.

[Rakim]

Leafs should do really well in the playo......... oh wait, thats right.