Originally Posted by zango

Do you seriously think that everyone is going to get the same plan from now until forever?

Honestly? This would mean that no matter what economic situations present themselves, changes in health care, changes in the Canada Pension Plan, changes in everything of that matter, every new hire would have the same contract as someone who worked for McMaster from several years prior?

You don't even make sense, why would you side with the people who are willing to take away your education, an education that you are paying for, and the health care benefits and salary of the people for which you are paying to, are these very same pigs who want more than what they CAN bargain for.

I'm not siding with anyone. I'm stating that it's important to look at the unions side as well as the university's side. You can't just look at the university's offer and judge from that (which you did).

Like Ben said, a strike would not interrupt class.

Because, I looked at the university's offer and saw that it is exactly what they SHOULD be getting, aggreed by both my parents who are experienced CMAs and know all of this BS, and immediately began to wonder why they are arguing?

Yes I looked at the CAW Local 55 website, have you? Read their bulletins, they certainly make A LOT of assumptions.

And no class interuptions. YAY.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

Right now, you shouldn't worry. There's no plan to go on strike as of this moment. Also, the university's plan is to stay open and run classes in the event of a strike, so even if there is a strike, we'll probably not lose our classes.

I work in one of the non academic offices, so I'm concerned about summer work. I know classes won't be affected.

Originally Posted by HeatherH

I work in one of the non academic offices, so I'm concerned about summer work. I know classes won't be affected.

The possible strike date was set for September 1st. No need to worry about summer work because your contract is up by that time.

Summer work is till end of August, don't worry.

I'm always fascinated by how many other students react to talk of a strike. Shrill calls of "How DARE they?! Don't they know that they are taking away MY education.

I've always found such objections quite selfish. And when I see them I think "No wonder they're so willing to go on strike." When confronted by people whose sole concern is "MY education, MY entitlements and MY etc. etc. etc." it must be exceptionally easy to say "You know what, everyone else is looking after their own interests, with no concern about anyone else's, I best look after my own."

Such incredibly self-interested attitudes on behalf of the people these staff members must work with and serve each day probably doesn't engender a great deal of sympathy for the plight of "YOUR education and YOUR lost time." Lets not forget, these are the people that make the adminstration of this university work. If you doubt it, I challenge you to find 10 professors who know:

a) where to find a form to change a grade
b) who needs to be e-mailed in order to grant a pre-req waiver to a student
c) who to submit exams to for photocopying (hell, I bet some won't even know how to work the photocopier)
d) when the add-drop deadline is
e) who to contact to request a room change
f) what paperwork needs to be done in order to enroll a student in a reading course

And while we're on the subject of who deserves what, can someone point to any source (other than the rather nebulous authority of Mommy and Daddy) that outlines specifically what the rather integral work these people do is valued at and explain what criteria should be used in defining what is deserved?

I've seen some very well thought out arguments against unions (such as by Tauntobor, sorry if I spelled that wrong), but simply stating "They will inconvenience me." is not a convincing argument about the status of their claims. It's simply narcissistic self-interest.

Also, I'd like to add that the TA's and Post-Docs are represented by CUPE. The non-academic staff are represented by the CAW, so they are negotiating separately with the university. One may choose to strike while the other will not.

Also, be aware that some professors will refuse to cross the picket line and may make alternative arrangements for where classes might be held.

I'm sorry, but a union shouldn't have the ability to put 20,000+ student's lives on hold for the simple reasons of wage increases and/or benefits. I don't care which union it is.

A strike, at the worst-case scenario could put all of our lives on hold for a year (by extending our degree by that amount of time via lost classes etc). That's not just a mere "inconvenience".

Nobody should have the right to do that. Period.

Originally Posted by Bobble

I'm always fascinated by how many other students react to talk of a strike. Shrill calls of "How DARE they?! Don't they know that they are taking away MY education.

I've always found such objections quite selfish. And when I see them I think "No wonder they're so willing to go on strike." When confronted by people whose sole concern is "MY education, MY entitlements and MY etc. etc. etc." it must be exceptionally easy to say "You know what, everyone else is looking after their own interests, with no concern about anyone else's, I best look after my own."

Such incredibly self-interested attitudes on behalf of the people these staff members must work with and serve each day probably doesn't engender a great deal of sympathy for the plight of "YOUR education and YOUR lost time." Lets not forget, these are the people that make the adminstration of this university work. If you doubt it, I challenge you to find 10 professors who know:

a) where to find a form to change a grade
b) who needs to be e-mailed in order to grant a pre-req waiver to a student
c) who to submit exams to for photocopying (hell, I bet some won't even know how to work the photocopier)
d) when the add-drop deadline is
e) who to contact to request a room change
f) what paperwork needs to be done in order to enroll a student in a reading course

And while we're on the subject of who deserves what, can someone point to any source (other than the rather nebulous authority of Mommy and Daddy) that outlines specifically what the rather integral work these people do is valued at and explain what criteria should be used in defining what is deserved?

I've seen some very well thought out arguments against unions (such as by Tauntobor, sorry if I spelled that wrong), but simply stating "They will inconvenience me." is not a convincing argument about the status of their claims. It's simply narcissistic self-interest.

Also, I'd like to add that the TA's and Post-Docs are represented by CUPE. The non-academic staff are represented by the CAW, so they are negotiating separately with the university. One may choose to strike while the other will not.

Also, be aware that some professors will refuse to cross the picket line and may make alternative arrangements for where classes might be held.

Students are entitled to have a "MY" attitude about this because we PAY for their service. If they want to go on strike, we get to call them out on it unless they want to refund our money that we use to pay their salary. As narcissistic as it is to say, we're the future; so by going on strike, they negatively impact that future.

We, the students, need to go on strike.

Rohan, I thought you were on strike all last year when all you did was hang around in Matthews all day, my bad!

Originally Posted by macsci

The university should negotiate, we don't want to have another York.

Shouldn't the union negotiate as well?

Watch this end up like the VIA rail strike. I can definitely understand about being annoyed if classes are pushed back. I'm sure the economy plays a role in lay-offs, but in some cases it's not that simple. For instance, at University of Toronto there's been a decrease in the number of business investments; however, academic funding has increased to the point where it offsets and surpasses this decrease. Couple this with the increase in tuition fees. Lack of funding because of the economy was not an issue. :|

Still, secretaries and lab technicians are an essential part of the university. Most professors don't understand the practical aspect of running a lab, at the lab I'm working at it's the technician that comes up with all of the protocols. Secretaries are important because it keeps the system running efficiently. New ones would need to be trained once again.

I have a quick question. I am going to be a TA in the new academic year. If the TA's and post-docs were to decide that they want to go on strike, can I say that I want to work during the strike? Or would I be forced out of having a job for the duration of the strike?

The beauty of unions is that should you choose to go against the union you could be verbally assaulted and labeled a scab.

In short, you would be forced out of your job.

Well that would be really shitty. I really hope they don't go on strike because I need the money from that job and if they decide to go on strike I won't have time to find any other job for the upcoming year. ugh.