MacInsiders Logo

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Medical School and Co-op t.dot Academics 6 05-24-2011 11:42 PM
Medical School Advice mitch Academics 99 10-29-2010 09:31 AM
medical school!! ishk33 Academics 13 07-30-2009 09:42 AM
medical school req Avenger Academics 2 10-06-2008 09:10 AM

Medical School Advice #2

 
Old 08-15-2011 at 12:57 PM   #16
MichaelScarn
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 560

Thanked: 87 Times
Liked: 161 Times




Hey Mitch,

Is there a general number of times you can write your MCATs before it starts looking "bad" to med schools? Also, would you recommend getting a research position and studying for the MCATs in the same summer? My plan is to study and take the MCATs for the first time in the summer of my second year and then take the MCATs along with the BMAT and GAMSAT in the summer of my third year.

And do you have any tips for studying for/writing the MCATs?
__________________
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Old 08-15-2011 at 01:47 PM   #17
maryam17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 139

Thanked: 2 Times
Liked: 2 Times




Hey Mitch!

Thanks for all your help on macinsiders. I found your kinesiology course reviews very helpful.

I will be entering my 4th year of kin at mac this fall and I just don't have the GPA to apply to med schools. I was thinking about doing my masters in kin, either at mac or a different school and then applying to med school after I complete my masters. Do med schools look at the masters/graduate school GPA to help get me in. So far my undergrad GPA isn't quite there yet.

Thanks again.

-Maryam
Old 08-15-2011 at 02:06 PM   #18
darklink121
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 95

Thanked: 6 Times
Liked: 59 Times




Hi Mitch,

Thanks once again for taking the time to reply to our questions. I have a question regarding course load. Many medschools prefer that the students who are applying have a full course load. I am going into my last year and I am one course shy of having a full course load. None of the classes that I have an interest in can fit into my timetable. Therefore I am considering taking an online course from Athabasca university. Do medschools recognize online classes or do they look down upon them?
Old 08-15-2011 at 03:43 PM   #19
Lois
Elite Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,069

Thanked: 318 Times
Liked: 361 Times




Totally not Mitch, but:

Michael - Canadian schools only look at your most recent MCAT. Theoretically you can only write it 3 times/year. If I were you I would focus on doing well on the MCAT instead of writing 3 standardized tests and having a full-time research position at the same time. I did the whole research & studying for the MCAT and did fine - it was just a bit stressful when you're commuting, doing readings and have no time for practice exams. It's doable, many people I know did research while studying for the MCAT.

Maryam - If your GPA isn't at cut-offs, doing a 5th year is better than doing a Masters. Some schools don't consider graduate school courses ... and you would be stuck doing your masters for 2 years instead of an extra year. There are some schools that give a slight advantage to masters students (Mac has a 1% bonus, but it's not really that useful).

Edit:

Quote:
If you're still worried and finding it difficult to get into Canadian schools with your marks, US and international schools are always an option. Wayne State in Detroit, the most friendly school to Canadian students, has an average science gpa of 3.62. International schools like in Australia and the Caribbean have even less stringent gpa requirements for the most part. I've attached a document from 2008-2009 detailing all the average gpa and mcat scores for all 130 medical schools in the US.
You need to be very careful about going to international schools. Some Caribbean schools and Australian schools don't have appropriate residence programs or you might get sent to a subpar facility. I know a couple of people in Australia who are worried because 1) it's incredibly difficult to match with CaRMs as a IMG and 2) There aren't enough residency positions in the countries that they are studying in (e.g. Australia). Having a MD is kind of useless if you can't find a job afterwards.
__________________


Last edited by Lois : 08-15-2011 at 03:47 PM.
Old 08-15-2011 at 05:46 PM   #20
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hey guys!

Thanks for helping out with answering some questions Lois! I will try to answer as frequently as possible, but most likely will only get on here once maybe twice per day. So any additional help is appreciated!

MichaelScarn - Lois is pretty much accurate that most schools take your most recent MCAT score. The Ontario exception is Queens which takes your best score. This is the reason why I was hesitant to retake the test. My mark was borderline average, but I was worried that if I got a lower mark the second time I'd be in trouble! Schools with accept as many MCATs written up to 5 years prior to application date. They don't care about the number, all they want are the marks.

As for your question about research and MCAT, I agree with Lois. It is possible but would be difficult. Have the plan that you might take the MCAT a second time, but you might do well enough that you won't have to!

I'm going to answer each question with a separate post to prevent a single post from getting too long But just a word about what Lois said regarding international schools. Yes, going there would be more difficult to get back into Canada. However, working in the US after is not difficult at all. You could work there for a bit and then try to get back to Canada if that's what you really wanted. I know many people who have done that and are GPs in Canada now. You'd have to figure out what your priorities are.
Old 08-15-2011 at 05:48 PM   #21
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hey Maryam17! How are you enjoying the kin program? I was in Mac Kin before medschool and I loved it! Did you take Dr. Blimkie's fourth year paediatric course?

A Masters program is tricky business but I agree with Lois once again . Everyone that has done a Masters has said not to do it if you are doing it for some other reason. You have to put in a lot of time and effort into the degree, and you don't want to end up resenting it. Plus, medical schools don't look favourably on students that do a Masters just to get accepted. What I mean by that, is that they don't like students who apply after 1 year of Masters. They want to see that if you start it, you finish it. It is true that some schools like Mac give a big advantage to Masters students. That's if you finish the Masters. Now, if you were thinking of doing a Masters as a backup in case you didn't get accepted, that's another story. You'd have to figure out what your priorities are and decide what you think the best path is.

Doing a fifth year, on the other hand, would help you increase your gpa. However, it doesn't do much else for you. So, if you are set on med 100% and don't want to do anything else, then a fifth year would probably be the best choice at this time. You'd increase your gpa and you could probably do some more EC's to boost your application. If you think that you might want to do a Masters if you don't get accepted to med school, then perhaps a Masters would be a better choice for you. But be aware, that doing a Masters would be a 2 year commitment, so don't start it if you don't want to finish.
Old 08-15-2011 at 06:03 PM   #22
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hey DarkLink121!

Zelda FTW!

That's a tricky question. Medschools don't specifically talk about online courses they accept and which they don't. They cover pass/fail courses and summer courses, but not online ones. The majority of schools just state something like this:

Please note: Only degree courses taken at an accredited university will be considered. To satisfy the minimum requirements, academic credentials from a Canadian University must be from an institution that is a full member of the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada (AUCC) or the Council of Ontario Universities (COU).

Some have a policy of using online courses in their gpa but most don't. To be safe, I'd call the admissions office of each school you were thinking of applying to and ask them if that course would be considered as part of your course load. If taking this online course is really important to you then calling the schools is better safe than sorry. I've never taken on online course before so I'm afraid I don't have the exact answers for you. I would suggest not risking it by taking a full course load and forgetting the online course, but it all depends on how important it is to you.

Old 08-15-2011 at 06:36 PM   #23
mide93
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1

Thanked: 0 Times
Liked: 0 Times




hey mitch. im an international student currently going to 2nd year kin. wat dyu recommend for me because its soo much difficult for international students to get into canadian med schools and the fees are for international students are ridiculous.
and i cant get a research position on OSCAR cos thats not allowed for international students. what do i do?
Old 08-15-2011 at 07:25 PM   #24
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hey mide93!

I'll do my best to answer your question, but being a Canadian applicant I'm afraid I might not have all the answers for you. If there's anyone else that has experience with being an international applicant, feel free to post your suggestions.

However! I did apply to the US and internationally, so I can relate a little bit to your situation. I totally understand where you're coming from about the tuition fees. If I went to Wayne State in the US, the tuition + residence + food would come to a total of around 80-85K PER YEAR!

My first question might be a silly one: Are you sure you're an international student? Seeing as how you're probably doing a degree program at Mac, all you'd have to be is either a Canadian citizen or at least a Permanent Resident to not be considered international. If you are still an international student, then the next question is where do you want to work as a doctor? Is Canada the be all and end all for you? Are there accredited medical schools in your home country that you'd be okay with?

I suggest you wait until next summer and see how you're doing at that point in terms of gpa and the like. You can apply to Canadian schools, but as you said, there aren't many spots available for international students so you'll have to be on top of your game with your marks, ECs and MCAT. Just like I've mentioned before, US schools and other international med schools would be easier to get into and are always an option. It's a bit too early in the game to tell what exactly you should do, just work hard and keep on the right track. However, never be discouraged just because you're an international student! I was going to go to Ireland and then to Detroit, but I weighed my options and my priorities both times. I didn't care too much about the tuition cost, because you'd make it back as a doctor eventually, and there's things like loans & grants out there. I decided I had a chance to get into a Canadian school with an extra year and that I was willing to take the gamble. You'll have to do the same when the time comes.

You can't get any research positions on OSCAR? That's too bad :( Try going up to a favourite professor and ask them if they have anything they need help with. Ask early in the new year if you're thinking about summer research. I know a friend of mind typed papers for Dr. Bray (I think that's his name) during the school year and got research credit. Go to the kin department and ask if there's anything available. Play up that you can't get anything on OSCAR otherwise

Hope that helps!
Old 08-17-2011 at 01:08 AM   #25
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Please post if you have any other questions or things you want to discuss about medschool, applications, preparation, etc.

In the meantime if anyone's interested, here's the links for our most recent interview day admissions videos! I helped make the Niagara one!

Niagara - http://download1083.mediafir e.com/...+-+Niagara.avi
(You might have to wait a sec for the link to appear after the crying child screen is shown.)

Hamilton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0moGNvjTM1M


Last edited by mitch : 08-17-2011 at 01:16 AM.
Old 08-18-2011 at 11:43 PM   #26
LadyBaglady
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1

Thanked: 0 Times
Liked: 0 Times




It's great to hear that you were in kin as an undergrad, that's the program I'll be starting in the fall! I've just got one question for you, one that I'm sure you (and other med students) get fairly often. Basically, how do you know if med school is right for you? I've wanted to become a doctor since middle school and always leaned that way in my courses and things that I read, but as the process of applying and studying for the MCATs is getting closer, I'm getting quite nervous. From what I've read and the stories I've heard, there seem to be two types of med students: ones that put every waking moment into studying and reading medical journals and memorizing their textbooks (as well as have degrees in things like chemistry and molecular genetics) and those that are free spirits that have travelled the world and sampled a little bit of everything and finally landed in med school because of their experiences and personality. I'm afraid that I don't really fall into either of those and I'm growing steadily more unsure as to how many eggs I should be putting into the "med school" basket... what are your thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Old 08-19-2011 at 10:41 AM   #27
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hi Ladybaglady!

Props for kin!

Asking how to know if medschool is right for you is a VERY subjective question. Each student has their own specific story and reasons behind why they have pursued medicine. You can get a million different suggestions and answers of what career to follow, but in the end, it's something that you really have to think about and decide on your own.

Something that has stuck with me a long time is the motto, "Follow your dreams". It may be a little bit corny, but I believe that if you want to do something bad enough, you can and will achieve that goal. It might not be a walk in the park and the route there might take a bunch of unexpected paths, but good things always happen to those that work hard and wait patiently.

Another thing worth mentioning is that it's perfectly ok to change your mind along the way. Most students who enter University with a set idea of a career they want to pursue, switch their programs or courses at some point. In fact, we have tons of students in my class right now who did not originally even consider medicine as a possibility. Through your time in undergrad your experiences will shape your thoughts and goals for the future. Don't worry too much right now if you're not sure, especially if you're just starting out.

Now to address your specific concerns, apparently I can not be a med student according to your criteria. I definitely did not spend every waking moment studying, in fact I had lots of free time and got a couple a bad marks during my undergrad. And I wouldn't consider myself a free spirit; I never volunteered overseas or traveled the world. How is this possible??? Haha. The answer is there is no set criteria for getting into medschool. You can come from any background, any program, any set of life experiences. If you decide you want to do it as a career, you put in the effort and just go for it. But just so I don't give you the wrong idea, you can't expect to relax, sit back and watch the medschools show up at your door with acceptance letters while drinking a bottle of corona on a lounger on your front yard.

There's no reason to be worried at your point in the game. Yes, you here about MCAT this and GPA that, but you're just entering first year. At your level I had not even heard of an MCAT and had pretty much no experiences under my belt as well, unless you consider being a camp counsellor a significant experience. Once I decided that I wanted to go into medicine I started working harder and did more things. Noone expects you to be to an awesome genius who has 29 worldwide experiences by the end of grade 12. In fact, most students are just like you in your position. If you're interested in medschool, start taking the prereq courses and then reassess your course choices at the end of each year. Join a club or volunteer at a hospital for a couple hours a week during the year. Start thinking about the MCAT in a year or year and a half. Don't bog down with everything all at once, you'll make your head explode. Do one thing at a time. Your life experiences will shape your goals and you'll have a better idea of what you want to do in the years to come.

Also, remember that things you read online are a bit biased. People who like to post about med stuff on forums (myself excluded of course ) usually are the ones that do really well and have really high marks. All the students that have low marks or are not so studious don't really post their opinions that often. When I was on the pre med forum for help while I was applying, I was told to re-do my MCAT and to bump up my gpa with more courses or else I wouldn't get in. I was just as stressed as you are, thinking that it's not possible for me to get in because no matter how hard I tried it was not good enough. The truth is, yes, having better marks would make one more competitive, but it's not the be all and end all for getting accepted.

So don't worry, be happy that your starting university at a great school in a great program! You have a long ways to go and if you continue to have a passion for med down the road then I'm sure you'll gain the experiences to do fine.


chelseac, OldSpiceGuy like this.
Old 08-19-2011 at 12:07 PM   #28
maryam17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 139

Thanked: 2 Times
Liked: 2 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch View Post
Hey Maryam17! How are you enjoying the kin program? I was in Mac Kin before medschool and I loved it! Did you take Dr. Blimkie's fourth year paediatric course?

A Masters program is tricky business but I agree with Lois once again . Everyone that has done a Masters has said not to do it if you are doing it for some other reason. You have to put in a lot of time and effort into the degree, and you don't want to end up resenting it. Plus, medical schools don't look favourably on students that do a Masters just to get accepted. What I mean by that, is that they don't like students who apply after 1 year of Masters. They want to see that if you start it, you finish it. It is true that some schools like Mac give a big advantage to Masters students. That's if you finish the Masters. Now, if you were thinking of doing a Masters as a backup in case you didn't get accepted, that's another story. You'd have to figure out what your priorities are and decide what you think the best path is.

Doing a fifth year, on the other hand, would help you increase your gpa. However, it doesn't do much else for you. So, if you are set on med 100% and don't want to do anything else, then a fifth year would probably be the best choice at this time. You'd increase your gpa and you could probably do some more EC's to boost your application. If you think that you might want to do a Masters if you don't get accepted to med school, then perhaps a Masters would be a better choice for you. But be aware, that doing a Masters would be a 2 year commitment, so don't start it if you don't want to finish.
Thanks so much to the both of you. So I think I will just do a 5th year but will they count that the same as other years? For example, Western takes the best full 2 years, so I could use 4th year marks and 5th year marks for sure? Even though after 4th year technically I already graduated?

For masters, lets say I apply after completing it, will schools look at these graduate courses only or will they use the undergraduate marks aswell?

Its so difficult because when I try asking the guidance at McMaster for help they just tell me to contact the med schools and I just want a general quick answer. I don't really know where to turn to at Mac for help with this.

Thanks again
Old 08-19-2011 at 02:22 PM   #29
mitch
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569

Thanked: 240 Times
Liked: 75 Times




Hey Maryam 17!

Here's a list of the Ontario medschool GPA rules regarding what you wanted to know:

Mac - GPA average of all undergrad years equally including extra years; grad work not considered in GPA but a completed Masters or PhD will provide a boost to the application.

UofT - GPA average of all undergrad years equally including extra years, but will drop the lowest full-year equivalent course mark from each year of undergrad if you've taken a full course load every year. Grad work is taken into a grad average GPA and assessed with the undergrad GPA.

Western - They call a fifth undergrad year as the "Special year" You are allowed 1 Special year. They take the GPA from your two best undergrad years, one of which may come from your Special year. Grad work is not considered in the GPA.

Queens - Assesses two GPAs: 1 is the cumulative GPA of all undergrad including extra years, and the other is the most recent 2 years GPA. Grad courses are not considered in the GPA.

Ottawa - Weighted GPA of most recent three years of undergrad including extra years. Formula is 1st year X 1, 2nd year X 2, 3rd year X 3. Or if your most recent three years is 3,4 and 5, then it's 3rd year X 1, 4th year X 2, and 5th year X 3. Grad courses are not considered in the GPA.

Northern - GPA average of all undergrad courses NOT including extra years. They will only consider extra years if this is going towards another degree. Grad courses are not considered in the GPA but a completed Masters or PhD will add a boost to the application.

So as you can so, each school has their own finicky way of calculating your marks.


hamnahx02 says thanks to mitch for this post.

Chevalier likes this.
Old 08-19-2011 at 10:34 PM   #30
science4ever
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 110

Thanked: 1 Time
Liked: 2 Times




Hi Mitch,

If you take courses during the summer of 2nd year, I understand that they will go towards your GPA of 2nd year when med schools calculate the average. However, if you already took 10 courses in 2nd year, and you did 2 courses (I took both orgos at York) during the 2nd year summer, do med schools consider your best 10 of the courses in order to calculate your GPA, or do they find the average of all 12 courses for your 2nd year GPA?

Thanks a bunch



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



McMaster University News and Information, Student-run Community, with topics ranging from Student Life, Advice, News, Events, and General Help.
Notice: The views and opinions expressed in this page are strictly those of the student(s) who authored the content. The contents of this page have not been reviewed or approved by McMaster University or the MSU (McMaster Students Union). Being a student-run community, all articles and discussion posts on MacInsiders are unofficial and it is therefore always recommended that you visit the official McMaster website for the most accurate up-to-date information.

Copyright © MacInsiders.com All Rights Reserved. No content can be re-used or re-published without permission. MacInsiders is a service of Fullerton Media Inc. | Created by Chad
Originally Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba vBulletin. All rights reserved. | Privacy | Terms