Hello,

I just wanted to know if anyone out there is minoring in Art History or French. I would LOVE to minor in French but I'm just a little worried of how it's gonna go.. I'm in the Faculty of Science and I thought it would be good to minor in something from a different faculty. I really enjoy French and I'm fairly good at it but I'm scared it will backfire on me when I apply for graduate studies. so, I have considered my second option which is to minor in Art History which I also enjoy very much.

Does anyone know how hard it is to do well in either of these two programs based on the level of difficulty of the available courses?

Thanks a lot

I can give you a rough idea of both classes, as I have taken both, more Art History classes than French.

For French: I wasn't very good at French in Elementary and High school, but I took French in my first year at Mac. I took French IK06, which is for Humanities students who haven't taken much French in high school(I only took the required grade 9 course). It was challenging for me, but I improved very much by the end of the year and really enjoyed it. The French program is really great at Mac, the Profs and TAs are very supportive. There's even a 'homework club' once a week, where several of the TAs are there to help anyone. If you are strong at French, you would take a more advanced class, and after first year all of the classes are the same 'level.' I couldn't tell you about after first year, as I haven't taken those yet but plan to. From what I heard they are a lot of work and very challenging, even for people who are strong in French. I don't think you would have a hard time with minoring if you already are strong with French, and as long as you seek help when you need it.. you should do fine.. but that may be difficult to balance with your major, as some of the French courses could be a lot of courseload to stay on top of. If I wasn't already doing a combined honours I would definitely consider minoring in French myself.

As for Art History: I think it may be the easier choice between the two. I have taken three Art History courses so far, that are required to be taken for Art, and have one left to take in third year. I found most of the classes enjoyable, some are more challenging than others but I think I could have done better if I had just spent more time studying, because usually the classes for my major end up being more of a priority for me.

So, French would be more challenging, but either would be manageable.. I think one of the main issues would probably be balancing the time and energy required with either minor and your major in science, since you mentioned you enjoy both and are probably strong at both. If you really want to minor in French, go for it! You could at least try it out, take some classes as electives towards your degree, if it works out, take more classes to minor in it, if it 's not working out very well, then at least you will still have some of your electives. You don't actually 'declare' a minor until you're in your graduating year, then as long as you have all the right credits the minor will be on our transcript. I don't think there are any requirements, really, as long as you have the pre-requisites and pass all the classes. Also, I've heard that you need to make sure you finish your minor before your graduate. You can't graduate, and then finish up your minor.. it won't count towards your degree. Before you decide though, you should set up a meeting with our academic counselor to get advice on how to go about it, just in case.

I'm minoring in French, and I found it to be a great break from my Kin/Science courses. It was nice in 1st year to have a class of 25 for French 1A03, compared to my 200+ for the rest of my courses. I was in French Immersion from Senior Kindergarden to Grade 12, with a good grasp on grammar, so I found 1A03 and 2B03 pretty easy. 2BB3 starts to dive into compositions and more on writing styles and some linguistics. I found that a little more challenging, but not super difficult. To get a French minor you also have to take 3C03 (continuation of 2BB3), a literature course, and 2 more courses of your choice. It equals out to 2 French courses per year.

Hope this helps a little!

I'm doing a minor in french and I'm in the engineering and society program. The upper year courses do have a higher work load than the first year course, however it's still nothing compared to my other courses. I've taken french all through my schooling so that might have helped me so far.

As for the requirements that were just mentioned, they actually changed it and you no longer require the 3C03 course. They just changed it in the undergraduate calendar for next year and the way it's written it kind of confused me because they have 2 separate sections. One is for students who are starting school before 2010 which doesn't even have anything about minors for french. The other is for students entering in the 2010-2011 academic year and in that one the minor does not include the 3C03 course.

I would contact the french department to make sure. I will probably be calling them Monday morning so if they enlighten me then I will let you know.

Originally Posted by KRan

I'm minoring in French, and I found it to be a great break from my Kin/Science courses. It was nice in 1st year to have a class of 25 for French 1A03, compared to my 200+ for the rest of my courses. I was in French Immersion from Senior Kindergarden to Grade 12, with a good grasp on grammar, so I found 1A03 and 2B03 pretty easy. 2BB3 starts to dive into compositions and more on writing styles and some linguistics. I found that a little more challenging, but not super difficult. To get a French minor you also have to take 3C03 (continuation of 2BB3), a literature course, and 2 more courses of your choice. It equals out to 2 French courses per year.

Hope this helps a little!

Hey thanks a lot for that! I was just wondering if it's easy to get an A+ in these french courses? I am very good with writing and grammar, the only part I would say I have to work harder on is the reading and comprehension, but having said that, I believe I still have quite a good grasp of the language. I was hoping to do really well in my minor as it will affect my GPA which will be considered for my application to graduate school.

So, in short, how would you rate the level of difficulty of these french courses with regards to obtaining an A+ as a final mark?

THANK YOU

Originally Posted by ingénieur.xo

I'm doing a minor in french and I'm in the engineering and society program. The upper year courses do have a higher work load than the first year course, however it's still nothing compared to my other courses. I've taken french all through my schooling so that might have helped me so far.

As for the requirements that were just mentioned, they actually changed it and you no longer require the 3C03 course. They just changed it in the undergraduate calendar for next year and the way it's written it kind of confused me because they have 2 separate sections. One is for students who are starting school before 2010 which doesn't even have anything about minors for french. The other is for students entering in the 2010-2011 academic year and in that one the minor does not include the 3C03 course.

I would contact the french department to make sure. I will probably be calling them Monday morning so if they enlighten me then I will let you know.

How much time on average do you spend doing french "homework" per week? I'm worried that it might take too much of my time and I would still like to do very well in my Science courses.

Thank you so much

I just finished my Kinesiology (science) degree with a minor in French and I would highly recommend it... I didn't find it too challenging to do as KRan said, the small French classes that incorporate more in class participation, grammar exercises, and essay writing were a nice break from my science courses and made me a more well rounded student in general. It's also nice to be able to say that I completed a minor in French and put it on my resume and to be able to keep my French skills up throughout University was great!

I think 3C03 was the most challenging course I took just because there was always some kind of homework to do for each class but it's doable, you just have to keep on top of it. I also wasn't looking forward to the literature courses but I took 3KK3 (revolutionary lit. before the rev.) with Dr. Hanley and actually really liked it! We read 5 books overall and only wrote 2 essays.
I also took a translation course - didn't really like it because I didn't feel like I improved my French and I for my other choice I took the French culture and civilization which was pretty good but involves a lot of class participation (small presentations followed by discussion), 2 'quizzes', a midterm, a final group presentation, and a final paper. Basically it was a course about the differences between France and North America and other cultures - pretty interesting!

Hope that helps a little

Edit: just read your other questions... I got mostly 11s in my French classes... I guess it depends on your profs really though. 12s are definitely possible as long as you do your homework. I can't really remember how much time I spend on homework/week - maybe 1hr/hour of class max. although I never really kept track so that's not that helpful lol

Originally Posted by MacLovin

I just finished my Kinesiology (science) degree with a minor in French and I would highly recommend it... I didn't find it too challenging to do as KRan said, the small French classes that incorporate more in class participation, grammar exercises, and essay writing were a nice break from my science courses and made me a more well rounded student in general. It's also nice to be able to say that I completed a minor in French and put it on my resume and to be able to keep my French skills up throughout University was great!

I think 3C03 was the most challenging course I took just because there was always some kind of homework to do for each class but it's doable, you just have to keep on top of it. I also wasn't looking forward to the literature courses but I took 3KK3 (revolutionary lit. before the rev.) with Dr. Hanley and actually really liked it! We read 5 books overall and only wrote 2 essays.
I also took a translation course - didn't really like it because I didn't feel like I improved my French and I for my other choice I took the French culture and civilization which was pretty good but involves a lot of class participation (small presentations followed by discussion), 2 'quizzes', a midterm, a final group presentation, and a final paper. Basically it was a course about the differences between France and North America and other cultures - pretty interesting!

Hope that helps a little

How were the literature courses? Were the readings challenging?

Thanks

Yes, I'd say they were pretty challenging but the way Dr. Hanley (and I think all other literature profs) structure the class is to have you read a certain amount for each class and then we went through it chapter by chapter and discussed important concepts and any confusing parts. In the beginning I remember thinking that I did't understand anything and after we got through the first book, I was ok with it.
Plus, you only have to take one to get the minor so if you don't like it, you don't have to take any more!

Thanks for the info about 3C03. I really did not like 2BB3 (mostly because of the prof), so not having to do it next year would be fantastic. Let us know if you hear anything from the French department.

12s are definitely possible, especially in the first year courses. Grammar is a lot less subjective than essays are, and since 1A06 is a full year course, each assignment is worth a lot less.

MacLovin, can you tell me more about the translation course? I was planning on taking it, along with Intro to French Linguistics, and Quebec Literature. I had Dr. Hanley for 1A06 and LOVED him, so I could be persuaded into taking one of his literature courses.

Originally Posted by Fawkes

How much time on average do you spend doing french "homework" per week? I'm worried that it might take too much of my time and I would still like to do very well in my Science courses.

Thank you so much

For the classes that I've taken so far (1A06, 2B03, 2BB3) I would say that the max amount I ever spent doing the homework was about 3 hours a week (and that was probably like a total of 3 or 4 weeks throughout both years of taking the courses), so it's really nothing compared to other courses.

One thing I would recommend for french courses is do not take them as a night class unless you have to because of scheduling. Last term in 2B03 I had it as a night class and the prof didn't always post what we had to do for homework so a lot of the time I would forget all about it until the day before because I had so much else to do as well. This term in 2BB3 it wasn't as bad since the prof was awesome (Dr Posthumus, I had her for 1A06 and loved her then too) and she always posted in a calendar what had to be done for when.

Its definitely easy to get really great marks in the courses, I've gotten 2 11's and a 10. But all of those could have easily been 12's if I had had a little bit more time to put into the writing portions of the courses. The tests were quite easy though.

Also I will post on here if I get anything from the french department on Monday.

Alrighty so I called the french department but apparently they aren't the ones to contact, they said to talk to the faculty of humanities. I called them but it just said that they couldn't take my call and to leave my name and number. I can't do that right now because I won't have the same phone after tonight and well I don't want to make them call France.

Anyways, if someone else could maybe try calling the academic advisor for the faculty of humanities and then maybe posting something on here when you hear anything that would be awesome!

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Hello,

I just wanted to know if anyone out there is minoring in Art History or French. I would LOVE to minor in French but I'm just a little worried of how it's gonna go.. I'm in the Faculty of Science and I thought it would be good to minor in something from a different faculty. I really enjoy French and I'm fairly good at it but I'm scared it will backfire on me when I apply for graduate studies. so, I have considered my second option which is to minor in Art History which I also enjoy very much.

Does anyone know how hard it is to do well in either of these two programs based on the level of difficulty of the available courses?

Thanks a lot

First of all, I can't believe they took out French 3C03 as a requirement?!?!......

Secondly, here's my two cents:

I'm in the Faculty of Science and I finished my minor in French. I too thought it was a cool idea to minor in something totally different from my major, and I felt the same way as KRan in that I thought it was a great break from all my science courses.

As for ease, it will vary from person to person. For me, I found that the workload on my French courses was generally much lower than for my other science courses. I took Core French up to grade 12 but French has simply never been that difficult for me, even in University. I did not enjoy much of the reading for my literature courses though because I'm really not into reading (French or otherwise). However, French 2J03 was surprisingly an enjoyable course (see my course review on MacInsiders). I only took 2J03 and 3Z03 for my lit requirement, and generally found the readings understandable and not too challenging. If you've never read French lit or have only read a little, it'll take a little time to get used to though.

I definitely agree that many of the profs and TAs in the French Department are really supportive and helpful though.

Originally Posted by KRan

MacLovin, can you tell me more about the translation course?

I took translation (2G03) two years ago with Dr. Rush and I really enjoyed the material. It teaches you different ways to say the same thing and helps you with written composition. It's a useful course for improving your French writing style.

Rush herself is kind of nice, but very picky with marks as she takes off 1 mark for everything that does not match her 'perfect' translation, so the class average for assignments was always around 60 =|. However, it's still possible to do well on the tests by studying those exercises!

Originally Posted by KRan

Thanks for the info about 3C03. I really did not like 2BB3 (mostly because of the prof), so not having to do it next year would be fantastic. Let us know if you hear anything from the French department.

12s are definitely possible, especially in the first year courses. Grammar is a lot less subjective than essays are, and since 1A06 is a full year course, each assignment is worth a lot less.

MacLovin, can you tell me more about the translation course? I was planning on taking it, along with Intro to French Linguistics, and Quebec Literature. I had Dr. Hanley for 1A06 and LOVED him, so I could be persuaded into taking one of his literature courses.

Sorry for the late reply...

I had translation with Banks and it was a night class. It was pretty easy because all we did was get assigned one section of exercises to do then we emailed them to her and she compiled them for us to take up in class. I found that I didn't really learn much probably because I didn't find that she was very good at starting discussion and it seemed like she just wanted to go home. I did learn a few things that helped my writing style and I learned to say things in better ways but I was mostly just bored during class. I'd say it would be better to just borrow the courseware from someone in the class and teach yourself.

As for Hanley's literature course, we read books/stories by Voltaire, Rousseau, and one other that I forget, which were kind of hard to get used to reading but when we discussed them in class he/the class discussion explained everything really well and he made us see the relevance in today's world. You could look up Candide or L'Ingenu if you're interested in finding out what some of the books are about.
Also, he marks the essays pretty easy
I've heard passions in the age of reason is another good one that he teaches but unfortunately I didn't end up taking it.