I recently read an article explaining and defending the MSU finances (http://www.macinsiders.com/showthread.php?t=2059 4). Of course, the raises to the executives were discussed. After reading this article I feel very concerned about the way that the MSU and SRA view the student body and our hard-earned money.

The supposed notion that the executives did not even ask for these raises is particularly troubling to me. Why give someone a raise that they're not asking for? The raises were defended by apparent increases in both the cost of living and the workload. While executives may put in some long hours and have more responsibilities than an average student, they are our student representatives, and therefore, servants to our student body. The interests of our servants should be with the services we demand of them and not with the remuneration that they demand of us. If their service should effectively remove them from their studies and/or the workforce then their cost of living should be compensated by the Union. That being said, I know exactly what the cost of living is for an MSU executive: it happens to be the same as my cost of living as a student. Last year I lived in the overpriced Les Prince Hall and (with tuition) my cost of living for the year was roughly $15,000. The SRA has now elected to pay a salary of more than twice that to the MSU President.

The mere fact that the SRA even put these raises up for discussion shows to me a complete disconnect between us and our own government. Their assumption must have either been 1) that we are so pleased with the way things are going that we are demanding a raise to our executives, or 2) that we don't care about where our money goes each year. It is indeed an unsettling combination of arrogance and ignorance in either case.

Sam Dick
Mechatronics Eng. II
[email protected]

if I recall correctly, the SRA chooses the next years' VP (not the president, but the VP finance, education and administration.) and and so they have an incentive to increase the wages, since they're likely to get the jobs.

"The supposed notion that the executives did not even ask for these raises is particularly troubling to me."
I know what you mean by that, the article states that the decision was "initiated" by the SRA. It makes it seem as if out of the blue the SRA decided to increase the wages. There was likely some form of coercion (I'm pretty sure I'm using this word correctly).

For every position in the MSU, there are wage reviews. A committee is tasked to look at each job and make sure they are being adequately paid for what their duties are. Executives were likely not the only ones with a change in terms of remuneration, however, they are the only wages that are actually released of all the full-time positions (ie. short stop manager, clubs administrator, sil exec editor, etc). All other part-time position wages are in operating policy 2.2. The committee took on the task of looking at the board of directors' salaries and recommended changes to the SRA, which then passed in at the June meeting.

It is said that the board of directors were not involved in the discussion to determine the wage increase so as not to impose any bias on to the decision. It's wasn't that they "didn't ask for it," it was that those individuals in charge of looking at these changes as well as the majority of the SRA felt that it was right to do. This year's BoD probably would have worked for the lower salary since this change was made after they had signed up for the position. In addition, the salaries of our board of directors is still lower compared to other local schools, some of which have six executives!

The questions about decisions to spend hard earned money is not one that members forget. We're also paying the MSU fee and most members of the SRA are unpaid volunteers. There are procedures in place to make sure that your money is spent wisely.

As for Vice President elections, it will be the SRA whom you elect in the upcoming SRA generals who will elect the vice presidents for the upcoming year.




and lol servants.. ahahhahaah I'm a slaave for you! I cannot deny it I'm not trying to hide it! ...I'm so sorry. I had to... <3 the britney.

lol to britny, you had to get to that one before someone else did, good hustle!

I fully understand that these raises weren't brought up out of the blue. I realize that every allotted dollar has been reasoned and that the executives had some input (even if no official statement was made). My problem with these raises is the reasoning behind them. Someone who lives in my neighbourhood, works at my school, and is similar to me in age and lifestyle (i.e no dependents) should not have a cost of living more than twice as large as mine. If an executive happens to have a couple of kids at home I'll drop it, they need the money more than I do.

The underlying issue, however, is the SRA's influence over these matters. I fully agree that we get the government that we deserve and if I don't like the SRA then I should elect a new one. Fair enough (I have no problem with the SRA in and of itself or any individual rep). However, I see a fundamental problem in this system. The most powerful members of the SRA will have (by definition) the most influence over any vote on raises. These exact same reps are then essentially promoted to executives the next year (or at the very least are up for the promotion). At least one of these two votes needs to belong to the student body in order to correct this obvious conflict of interest.

I'm glad you also appreciate the Britney. haha

One thing that these positions have that's different from your cost of living is that these people will likely also have lots of student debt that they'd have to start paying off. I know that if I wanted to do that job, and it didn't pay a somewhat competitive wage, I wouldn't be able to for that reason alone. It would be a lot smarter for me to get a job in 'the real world.'

Members of the SRA plus the finance committee, which consists of members of the student body, had all felt that the adjustments in remuneration was completely necessary for the work these positions entailed. If you would like to speak towards this increase, I would invite you to contact the SRA Finance Committee [email protected] mcmaster.ca.

The motion first had to go through committee, which MSU members hold seats on and are open to anyone else to attend. Then it came to the SRA for approval.

One more thing you should note is that it's not restricted to SRA members who move up to be VPs. The only position that requires you to be a member of the SRA is the Vice President Administration position. However, you could have not been involved in the SRA the year prior, then run for the position in March, then run for VP Admin. The VP Education and VP Finance positions require no prior SRA experience.

In terms of the domination of influential members, I'm not too sure that that is a problem that I've seen in the SRA. There has always been well-balanced debate about the merits of a motion if there was any contention. I'm speaking for myself but I've never felt any semblance of conversation domination in the sense that some members are seen to be more powerful and intimidate others into submission. I would always be more than willing to speak my peace even if it went against something a seemingly powerful member had said. That's part of the job.

If you would like more student body participation, I'd encourage you to join a committee or come to the SRA meetings and feel free to speak on the merits of motions! The agenda for this next meeting is here: http://www.msumcmaster.ca/studentGov.../documents.htm

always pay your friends moar!

This motion actually went through in June before most of us really knew eachother anyways.

Let's keep this respectful please.

Hey Sam,

Your concerns are extremely relevant however a small increase in wage only reflects the culture that the SRA/MSU has become. The original intention of the SRA is accountability, that is the power that has been vested in the Body of Directors is substantial and a mediating body is needed to keep them in line. However over the years, and this should not be blamed on this year's SRA in particular, the SRA has become more complacent and now work more with the BoD instead of with their respected faculties. To be honest the SRA should be criticizing the BoD paychecks as opposed to raising them. The SRA should also be holding them accountable for the work being done, i personally have not been contacted, nor anyone I know, by my SRA members regarding what has/has not been done by the BoD this year.

However, if you take a more critical approach and look more in depthly at MSU finances you find very easily and quickly oddities that make the BoD pay raises look like nothing. I do not wish to regurgitate numbers over this thread but to be blunt, the 7 million dollars being collected for the MSU is being used extremely inneficiently. You look at expense lines which reach into and over the $100, 000 mark to which you scratch your head asking why.

So what I say to you Sam, is go see Ian Finlay (who by the way does not deserve the blame being placed on him by years of poor financial management), ask for financial statements and take a more critical approach. Whether or not the pay raise is deserved is a fair debate however what it has brought light to is how the MSU handles it's finances and how desperately change is needed. The business units hide under this umbrella of ignorance that they are allowed to run deficits because they are not for profit. But let us all remember this, the MSU is not for profit, why not try to enhance their business units efficiency in order to reduce student fees, use a profit from Quarters or the Underground or Short Stop to help cover the cost of other MSU services. To be honest, I would rather pay 7$ for a burger at Quarters and only 200 in student fees, as opposed to 5$ for a burger and $700 in student fees.

Look into it, be critical.

The SRA did criticize the board of directors wages. They took a hard look at them and realized something needs to be changed.

In terms of working with the BoD vs. criticizing them, it is actually necessary to do both. Accountability is important but working with these positions helps them do their jobs.

As for connections within faculties, your faculty caucus leader should be in attendance at all of the society meetings. If they cannot attend, they should be delegating another member of their caucus. If this hasn't been happening, the SRA has things it should be doing between eachother to keep themselves accountable. But, what would be most effective at the present time for you as a student would be to try and email your representatives directly with questions.

In regards to Quarters, this is supposed to be a revenue-generating service which could help to support the other services such as EFRT, SWHAT, or SHEC. I also don't agree that it is something students money should be supporting in this way, which is why we're working hard to fix the situation.

If you have concerns about specific things that you believe fall under the ignorance umbrella, bring them up and we'll address them.

The SRA did criticize the board of directors wages. They took a hard look at them and realized something needs to be changed.

Ok, then if so, you let me know what made you vote to increase their wages. And do not use CPI because that accounts for less than half of the increase and do not say more working hours because this year's BoD does not work a single hour more than any other year.

In terms of working with the BoD vs. criticizing them, it is actually necessary to do both. Accountability is important but working with these positions helps them do their jobs.

Yes you are supposed to work with them but you, as an SRA member, are not elected to work with the BoD but to work FOR your faculty. Of course working with them is an important part but 3 of the 4 members of the BoD are former SRA and a large portion of SRA members are re-elected. To say that the SRA holds the BoD accountable is a joke. To try and make it seem like there isn't this buddy-buddy culture in the MSU is ridiculous.

If this hasn't been happening, the SRA has things it should be doing between eachother to keep themselves accountable. But, what would be most effective at the present time for you as a student would be to try and email your representatives directly with questions.

Please, ignore lack of visibility of anyone in the MSU. Ignore this word, "accountable" which so many people try to attach significance to. And break it down to what has the SRA done this year? Besides completely mishandle a referendum what has the SRA accomplished? On that note, what have they tried to accomplish?

I can't even believe how Awful the SRA is
Shouldn't we be debating rad mega fun times we can organize as a school?
They've got us talking about their cash.

SRA is trash
MSU is trash

(thats a little harsh, they are probably rad people, but it leads to a Boring game.)


no replastering the structure is rotten.

Andrew,

If you've got so many complaints how about you do something about these problems instead of just whining from your computer? James ran for MSU president because he didn't like the way things are run around here, what are you going to do?

All you do is complain, get out there and try to make the change you want to see happen. Until you try, what right do you have to complain? It's like not voting and then being mad about who won the election, it just doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by AndrewC

do not say more working hours because this year's BoD does not work a single hour more than any other year.

I am not here to argue, just state one thing. When doing Wage evaluations you need to remember to do them for the job, not the employee... if they dont do the job then deal with it. So you cant compare one years hours to the next.... also you remember, more services have opened up in the last year making the roles and responsibilities to increase...

This is all I am saying to this... I am not here to debate

Ian, this response is fine, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the change in wages all I am asking Temara for is a reason. If there is indeed more work then fine, if she feels that is her justification then there is no problem. However everyone seems to fall back on this 40 hour work week and CPI increase when those cannot be the entire reason.