Hello! I got into CS coop I and I really wanna go to McMaster. However, right now it's a choice between UofT Scarborough CS Coop and Mac. I don't really know much about McMaster's program so I have some questions:

1) How come they only admitted 45 students this year? Why is the program so small? Is it competitive?
2) Are there good opportunities for coop in CS?
3) When did their CS program start (like what year)? I'm thinking maybe the reason why they take only 45 students is because their faculty is new.
4) Does the program have a good reputation?
5) Based on reputation, academics, program difficulty, campus aesthetics and student life, which school would be better for me to attend, UTSC or Mac?

I think those are all my questions. Any answers would be appreciated! Thank you!

I'm in Business Informatics Co-op (the Business stream of Comp Sci) so I'll try and answer some of your questions.

1. The program is competitive in terms of admissions yes, I believe somewhere around 900 apply and 50 get in, but the main reason the program is so small is because of lack of support from the Engineering faculty. Don't get me wrong, they treat their Comp Sci students well, but Computer Science is not a big part of what McMaster is known for, and they focus more on engineering.
2. Comp Sci is a great field for jobs, so there are good opportunities everywhere, whether it's McMaster or UofT SC. That said, most tech jobs will not be in Hamilton.
3. Comp Sci at Mac has been around a long time, looking at the 1978 course calendar I see Comp Sci listed: http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /CALEN...78-1980web.pdf The Faculty of Engineering has probably been around for a century, so that's really not it.
4. In my opinion it has a great reuptation, as a result of McMaster's great reputation in general and that of the Engineering faculty, though Comp Sci is not a specific program McMaster is known for.
5. To be honest, every single person I've spoken to that goes to UofT SC has either wanted to transfer to the downtown campus or just hated it. Back in the day it was a better university, but I hear that it's been taken over by Scarborough and become run down and gloomy. Of course most people on this forum will tell you that Mac is better, but I can't see U of T SC ranking above Mac for anything to be honest. Of course going to U of T gets you the UofT reputation, Scarborough or not, but it's up to you to choose which university you like better. I'd really recommend going on tours of both if you still have time.

One quick note on the Co-op program: Mac has co-op in that they list it on your degree and have some workshops and a job listing system to help, but they will not find a job. That's up to you. Many co-op programs elsewhere get much more involved with their students, even going as far as matching students up to jobs.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks for your help! It's nice to hear from someone who has experienced Mac CS firsthand.

Well, I visited both campuses recently and I HATE UTSC lol. It's so grey and small and it's in the middle of nowhere (not to mention the weird people there). On the other hand, I fell in love with Mac. It's my dream campus with all the old buildings and the trees omg. Actually, I think I wanna go to Mac instead of UTSC. It wins in all the aspects I mentioned in my question, except in terms of reputation. The way I see it, if I wanna work my ass off and stay in an environment I don't like but *might* get better job prospects later on, I should go to UTSC. However, if I wanna enjoy university while learning, I should go to Mac.

About the transfers at UTSC... I read some forums as well and a lot of people wanna transfer out because CS is a GPA killer and the assignments are crazy, I heard. I was thinking I can try 1st year at UTSC and then transfer to Mac if I don't like it/can't take the workload. But I'm thinking what if my GPA's sooooo low by then and Mac doesn't take me. I'll have nowhere to go :(

I'm really confused right now. Not to mention that my parents are pressuring me to go to UTSC. In your opinion, does reputation matter more than what you'll experience/learn outside uni classes? And do you have any ideas of how I can convince my parents to let me accept my Mac offer? X_X

Just to expand on the co-op thing a bit more..even though Mac doesn't help you find a co-op placement it isn't impossible to get one. Most people tend to get co-op positions in their third or fourth year though as they have much more knowledge by then. That said, you can still obtain a co-op placement after first and second year though like myself. You just need to have really good marks, and a positive attitude towards learning.

From everything I've heard what university you went to means next to nothing after you graduate, if you're going to hate UTSC then don't go there, a big part of how well you do in university depends on you actually enjoying it. Job prospects-wise there should be no difference between UTSC and McMaster. It might be a slightly different story if you were thinking of working internationally, but as long as you're in Canada there should be no difference. A graduate from McMaster could easily beat out a graduate from UTSC for a job and vice versa, depending on the individual person. Employers don't see McMaster or UTSC on a resume and instantly hire you, they want to know about you, not the university you went to.

As for transferring into Mac in second year I've never heard of anyone doing that for Comp Sci. It could be possible if you keep your grades really high, but for many people first year is a huge change, so I would really not recommend doing that. You'd most likely have to start at Mac in first year, so that's already a year wasted, and so few people get into Comp Sci in the first place I think they'd be less likely to accept a university transfer student than a high school student with top marks.

As for convincing your parents, you've got to let them know that this is your decision to make, it should have absolutely nothing to do with them, it's not them who's going to spend the next four or more years at a university, it's you. And that should be somewhere you'll be happy.

Thanks for your replies! I'm still trying to decide between the 2 schools. How are they Computer Science facilities at Mac? And do you have large classes? And about co-op, how hard was it for you to find placements?

And another thing, is it hard to get good marks in CS?

How are they Computer Science facilities at Mac?

Decent. You won't really be using "facilities" other than some tutorials taking place in computer labs. 99% of work will be done on your laptop and 99% of lectures+tutorials will be in regular rooms and lecture halls.

And do you have large classes?

Most first year classes are shared with Engineering and Soft Eng. (note: this may have changed since I was a freshman) and some are electives (not CS). Those classes will have 100+ students easily. CS only classes tend to be 30-40 people and that number declines throughout the 4 years of the program.

And about co-op, how hard was it for you to find placements?

Everyone I know in co-op has found a placement every summer since first year. It is quite literally impossible to not get a placement. Start looking right away when you get back from winter break.

And another thing, is it hard to get good marks in CS?

It may be difficult in some courses but if you put the time in you can expect 10+ average (A-). There's a lot of room for electives in CS so you can supplement that with some easy courses.