Originally Posted by Mowicz

But who's been lead? The only person making a big deal out of it (besides the people defending him, and you for trying to clear things up now) was Biee.

Now we're going on to who's been making a big deal out of it.

I sometimes correct people when they're wrong on the internet (it happens a lot). In this case I corrected people who were saying that Jeff was not saying that CSA was racist. He was implying it is.

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

From my experience most of the racism I see at mac isn't overt, it's more along the lines of people just not knowing what they're doing is racist (such as saying "yo, yo, yo" and trying to act "gangsta" around me), almost all of the overt racism I've seen has been directed towards the asian student body; i've definately heard comments similar to the ones heard by the TC.

I totally agree that a lot of racism in Mac is towards asian students

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

Now we're going on to who's been making a big deal out of it.

No no, I think we've had a miscommunication. I wasn't trying to make you look bad by saying you've made a big deal out of it (as I've made just as big a deal about it), instead I was saying to ignore our contributions since we came in as a result of the problem, and not as instigators...infact, most people did, except for Biee.

And then I'm challenging your suggestion that Biee was trying to clear up the misunderstanding...be cause no one was 'confused' about it, (except for, at most, Biee).

I sometimes correct people when they're wrong on the internet (it happens a lot). In this case I corrected people who were saying that Jeff was not saying that CSA was racist. He was implying it is.

I don't believe that follows. Instead of going all math nerd on you, with the "Let A be the statement "blah blah" " and formally argue that it doesn't follow that Jeff said anything negative about the CSA (I've done it on these forums before (Here: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthrea...ic#pos t89870)) ...and I opt not to do this for two reasons:

1) I don't want to spend 40 minutes posting this
2) You don't want to spend 40 minutes reading it

...I feel it's more illustrative to just give an example. Here's the most concrete one I can think of:


"There are many books/articles written which portray Hitler as a great man, with good intentions, etc. Some even go so far as to say he's a hero."

Does me saying this statement imply that I think he was a hero? Certainly not...I'm simply reporting something I've learned. I'm not implying Hitler is a hero by simply stating it.


See if instead, I said something like "Hitler must be a hero because there are many books/...etc." then things change.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

But who's been lead? The only person making a big deal out of it (besides the people defending him, and you for trying to clear things up now) was Biee.

I'm not trying to make this a big deal. When someone don't know about how their interview went, I can think of why they can use these 'blames' and puts a racial comment on CSA. Like what FireDragoonX stated, Jeff Chan is implying that CSA is racist.

It's the same as blaming the prof for an assignment you failed. Likewise, you think that the prof is hating on you or something and gave you a low mark. Meanwhile, others do well and never had a problem with it.

I just don't like rumours to spread about CSA and this is how it starts when someone makes a comment like that.

Originally Posted by Biee

I just don't like rumours to spread about CSA and this is how it starts when someone makes a comment like that.

There is certainly a lot of truth in this statement, and people *should* think before they speak.

Originally Posted by lorend

OMG my Anthro degree has a use...

I find it all surprising that you have no idea that racism still exists.

There are several kinds of racism. Explicit racism is when the state/people are obviously racist. Implicit racism is more tricky, because the opinion isn't "out there"; normally these people (and most racist people in this day and age) don't give their opinions because they fear rebuke.

The Canadian state says it isn't racist, but I would say that's a lie. At best I would say it is implicit, but in some cases still explicit. The Indian Act is the only piece of legislation left in the world that openly discriminates a group of people...which is contrary to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I have been discriminated against because of race, and it happened at Mac.

Thank you!
I have been saying that for years!

Personally i witnessed/experienced a rather substantial amount of racism during Israeli Apartheid week. From getting strange looks for having a palestinian scarf or being called an anti semite simply because i support the Palestinians.

Originally Posted by fasailuddin

Personally i witnessed/experienced a rather substantial amount of racism during Israeli Apartheid week. From getting strange looks for having a palestinian scarf or being called an anti semite simply because i support the Palestinians.

On the other hand, comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa is SO accurate.

Apples and Oranges.

That and I think both sides are to blame for the problems during that week ie. Remember all the stuff that went down at York U re: the storming of the jewish student association offices etc.?

I never said or implied that only individuals of one side have racist tendencies. I only said what i experienced and witnessed.

Originally Posted by fasailuddin

I never said or implied that only individuals of one side have racist tendencies. I only said what i experienced and witnessed.

I didn't mean to imply that you did, but just didn't want to leave the other side unstated.

I think racism in generally is a worrying trend in society, but I think it has a lot to do with perceived policies and programs that benefit certain ethnic groups exclusively or at least more than others.

For example, while few educated people agree with the policies and views of the British National Party, most people see that it stems not from a deep seated racism among white people, but rather from the politics of division that has been used by several british political parties to play race against race.

Originally Posted by daisy

There is certainly a lot of truth in this statement, and people *should* think before they speak.

I should, but I have a huge tendency not to. >__>

Sorry Biee

It's okay JEFFFCHANNN!!
We're still cool

I can't say for sure whether there is blatant racism at Mac, and I would like to think that there isn't. I find it absolutely shameful that a lot of people here would rather hang out with people of their own ethnicity because of preconceived notions or feelings of uncomfort with people who aren't of their own ethnicity.

I've always been the weird one who didn't hang out with other people of Caribbean or African descent, not because I didn't want to, but because I just felt that everyone is the same and any amount of cultural difference is just interesting, not something to be scared of or hate.

I don't think the problem lies with whether or not the CSA is racist (which it isn't), it just lies with having ethnic groups at all. I feel like it just celebrates pointless "differences" that don't really exist. I get celebrating your culture, but I feel like people don't understand that it's about cultural differences and not the colour of your skin or ethnicity.

When it comes down to it, our DNA is pretty much exactly the same and biologically we are so similar that any physical representation of our genes has absolutely no basis for discrimination and hate. Unfortunately, our ancestors are dumbshits and we're still dealing with the repercussions. The only reason racism exists is to make some people feel better about themselves, and deal with things they have no idea about/are not educated about by hating it instead.

And also... our ancestors have passed down their ideas, and some of us in our age group are racist too. Boo hoo, they're not worthy of my time anyway.

I always feel a distinct unease in seeing ethnocentric clubs being advertised in the student centre...

I think it would seem far less repugnant if their members branded them as culture appreciation clubs. A title like the "Chinese Students Association" unambiguously panders to one ethnic group at the (unintentional) alienation of others, some of whom may be even more ambitious about Chinese culture than a great many of the Chinese themselves!

Doubtless this would probably have little impact on the demographics of said members, but it would at least foster some approachability.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to semantic nuances than others, but I think small tweaks like these can go a long way...