Originally Posted by Comrade B

I always feel a distinct unease in seeing ethnocentric clubs being advertised in the student centre...

I think it would seem far less repugnant if their members branded them as culture appreciation clubs. A title like the "Chinese Students Association" unambiguously panders to one ethnic group at the (unintentional) alienation of others, some who may be even more ambitious about Chinese culture than a great many of the Chinese themselves!

Doubtless this would probably have little impact on the demographics of said members, but it would foster some approachability.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to semantic nuances than others, but I think small tweaks like these can go a long way...

I think it's also an interesting point about the cultural associations.

I find though that some ethnic groups seem more open in general re: attempting to learn their language. In fact when I attempted to learn Mandarin with the pimsleur tapes in high school, my mandarin speaking friends were very supportive and impressed. Although i felt weird when one commented "You don't sound like a white person"...

Originally Posted by feonateresa

When it comes down to it, our DNA is pretty much exactly the same and biologically we are so similar that any physical representation of our genes has absolutely no basis for discrimination and hate. Unfortunately, our ancestors are dumbshits and we're still dealing with the repercussions. The only reason racism exists is to make some people feel better about themselves, and deal with things they have no idea about/are not educated about by hating it instead.

And also... our ancestors have passed down their ideas, and some of us in our age group are racist too. Boo hoo, they're not worthy of my time anyway.

Yay for Anthropology again:

1) Race is a social construct.
2) There is actually more variation between so-called "racial" groups than between two different ones (white and Asian, black and Indian etc etc)

When I was younger, I had a tough time explaining I was Indian and Muslim which is interesting because India has a large Muslim population.

Here's how the conversation went:
Where are you from?
India
But you're Muslim?
Yes
But you're from India?
Yes
But you're a Mus-lim?
Yes.
How can you be an Indian Muslim?
...Because I'm Indian...and I'm a Muslim.

It reminds me of the exclamation I used to hear:
"You're the first brown person I know with peanut allergies! Do brown people even have allergies?"

(Just for the record, we don't. We just have anaphylactic shocks because we're bored between being IT professionals and producing the world's most neurosurgeons. )

It's ironic because I've never heard that at Mac.
I have met people however, who ask where I'm from and never remember and assume I'm from Pakistan (which I have no problem with. But if remembering is so hard, then don't ask - it's really not a big deal )

On the other hand, I've met people who are very surprised I eat halal and I'm to infer I suppose, that they don't think I'm Muslim.

It's not something that riles me up personally but it just seems a bit impolite to assume, or be super surprised when an internal assumption is proven wrong.

Speaking about cultural correctness:
RELIG ST 2Q03 (Introduction to Islam)
http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /CALEN...nt/pg1838.html
I may not know much if anything at all, but ...that should be *Quran, not Koran.

Things would be so much easier if india and pakistan were just one big country. Also the spelling of the Quran can also be the Koran, as it is an arabic word, a few english translations exist. The same applies for Muslim, Moslem etc

Originally Posted by goodnews.inc

Speaking about cultural correctness:
RELIG ST 2Q03 (Introduction to Islam)
http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /CALEN...nt/pg1838.html
I may not know much if anything at all, but ...that should be *Quran, not Koran.

If I'm not mistaken that's the Anglicized spelling. It's also the first way I learned how to spell the text.

Originally Posted by lorend

2) There is actually more variation between so-called "racial" groups than between two different ones (white and Asian, black and Indian etc etc)

I'm not sure I buy this...how would you measure something like that? To say 'more variation' implies that it's quantified somehow.

Originally Posted by goodnews.inc

On the other hand, I've met people who are very surprised I eat halal and I'm to infer I suppose, that they don't think I'm Muslim.

I think it's moreso that the average person has no idea what "Halal" means. So whenever they hear something like "I can only eat Halal meat" they naturally say something like "So are you Jewish or something?"


But keep in mind that the "Halal vs. Not Halal" is a heated debate across the Islamic community...just like Television, Music, Dancing, and some other things. So some people who are surprised you eat Halal may not be confused about you being a Muslim...they may also be familiar with the type who don't eat Halal, exclusively (as many I know personally, are).

I tried to become God and King of all inanimate objects once but they revolted. I've never felt so digustingly... human.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I'm not sure I buy this...how would you measure something like that? To say 'more variation' implies that it's quantified somehow.

Lewontin = awesome: http://raceandgenomics.ssrc. org/Lewontin/
http://www.trinicenter.com/sciencenews/genesandrace.htm

These aren't the exact texts I'm looking for, but it will do for the moment.

Originally Posted by fasailuddin

Things would be so much easier if india and pakistan were just one big country. Also the spelling of the Quran can also be the Koran, as it is an arabic word, a few english translations exist. The same applies for Muslim, Moslem etc

It should have stayed one country, yes the Partition ruined lives, and ...was wrong.
However, I think now, expecting a merge would be devastating. The cultures are now very distinct, though there is a lot of overlap.
Pakistan has made brilliant innovations that they want credited to their name, and rightfully so.
India however, has also done amazing things that they also deserve independent credit for.
That and the customs, the celebrations, even the food is so vastly different that they should be honoured as separate because each people worked hard to create a unique identity. It may not seem like much, but after such a devastating split, it's a sign of strength, recovery and pride.

I think that while there are a lot of people who may feel "insulted" being called one when they are the other, there are many (or maybe I'm just hoping there are) that would like their culture's own achievements to be celebrated as their own milestones. I don't think it is a matter of offense to this group, but just a matter of giving due credit.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I think it's moreso that the average person has no idea what "Halal" means. So whenever they hear something like "I can only eat Halal meat" they naturally say something like "So are you Jewish or something?"


But keep in mind that the "Halal vs. Not Halal" is a heated debate across the Islamic community...just like Television, Music, Dancing, and some other things. So some people who are surprised you eat Halal may not be confused about you being a Muslim...they may also be familiar with the type who don't eat Halal, exclusively (as many I know personally, are).

Lmfao the funny thing is that other Muslims are the ones very surprised that I eat it at all. I would understand if someone wasn't familiar, but when somebody in a scarf looks at you and says "You eat Halal?"...it's just ...very funny

However to avoid this debate repeatedly, I just state my dietary restrictions which are:
I cannot eat dairy or dairy containing products
I cannot eat all forms of bread and many gluten containing products
I cannot digest heavy sauces
I cannot eat things that are too spicy if they are new
I cannot eat nuts
I do not eat any meat except chicken, and only chicken that has been cooked thoroughly (preferably grilled or burnt)
I do not eat fish

By the time I get to the end, they usually don't have any more questions or any further interest in the topic.

following the islamic dietary laws is indeed hard but personally i think its a family instilled value. If your family practices it then your more likely too. I find it strange tho, how people think its up for debate. The ritual is mandatory.

Originally Posted by lorend

Lewontin = awesome: http://raceandgenomics.ssrc. org/Lewontin/
http://www.trinicenter.com/sciencenews/genesandrace.htm

These aren't the exact texts I'm looking for, but it will do for the moment.

I gave the first one a very quick read (I'm rather exhausted tonight from all the quote unquote 'excitement' today paired with doing a difficult assignment) and I'll give them a more thorough examination tomorrow. In particular, I looked at his second remark, regarding 85% variation in (human) genetic code.

This is what I'm not sure I buy...I mean I can't exactly sit down and read a very hefty scientific document in a subject I have no training in (and I certainly don't expect you to sit down with me and explain it all), but from what I understand, a full genome scan is a very costly procedure that takes years to do...and what I'm not sure I grasp is, without doing one, how can he be sure there's 85% variation? There may be variation in something which is deemed "Not" human genetic code, so you can't simply scan what we 'think' is human code, do you know what I mean?

Unfortunately, all he's saying is that 'the scientific community agrees.' But this ("proof by appeal to authority") is not only a trap (ie. at one point, 99% of scientists thought the earth was flat), but I just literally can't see where he's getting his numbers from...and in particular, how does Joe Average scientist get these numbers without being an expert in the field?

It basically turns into a few scientists who report their findings to other scientists who believe them...and then suddenly, 'most scientists' believe the fact.

---------------

Sorry I'm not trying to be a pain, I just really want to understand because I think it's a neat fact you've pointed out...I'm just having trouble convincing myself. (You know how much I love my numbers...lol)

Originally Posted by fasailuddin

following the islamic dietary laws is indeed hard but personally i think its a family instilled value. If your family practices it then your more likely too. I find it strange tho, how people think its up for debate. The ritual is mandatory.

I used to be annoyed that there wasn't much Halal stuff to eat. But now...I'm at a point where I can't eat a good amount of potato fries without...digestive distress...so...it doesn't matter to me anymore
I just restrict the suffering to places where Halal is served or places that I can eat where I can tolerate the food (which is few and far)

;__; People don't know what halal meat is? *facepalms.

Bushra, just to let you know there are lots of gluten free options at Mac. I knew a girl with celiac disease and she talked to Hospitality services for a consulation.