legit reasons. ne1 getting a paycut or pension bomb would strike

DannyV hates unions. Reagan is dead, get with the times.
Also anyone advertising that they study 'management' in their signature undoubtedly has a pro-management bias and does not need to be taken seriously. chyeaa

Originally Posted by sew12

The actual amount of wage reduction is irrelevant. The point is that it's a reduction in wages, wages the employees live on. They have certain living costs, possibly dependents etc that rely on the wage they're receiving and the University is threatening to cut it a certain amount, whether it be $4, $3 or $10.

Wage reductions suck, but you also have to look at the university's point of view. Obviously they're trying to minimize the amount of money they spend, but they also want to make the best offer they can to prevent a strike. Its likely that the reduction in wages was to prevent laying off even more workers (which would be bad for both McMaster and the Union). I don't know what the current wages are, but its quite possibly that McMaster is paying them more than they can currently afford, or much more than market wages.

Originally Posted by Marlowe

Obviously they're trying to minimize the amount of money they spend

Spending money on renovating Commons and quarters, suggests otherwise. The university only cares about attracting prospective students, not maintaining its employees/satisfying its enrolled students.

My point has been: we don't know what they're discussing so making speculations based on hearsay is pointless.

As for my stance on unions, it's a personal opinion based on personal experiences.

Is the university is right in this case? I don't know.
Is the union is right? I don't know.

I don't have enough concrete information to form an educated opinion on the situation therefore I have reserved judgment.

Keep on trollin' in the free world, andrew22!

Originally Posted by sew12

...
Do you want to do the job?
...

I'm sure many people would.

Originally Posted by DannyV

My point has been: we don't know what they're discussing so making speculations based on hearsay is pointless.

...

I don't have enough concrete information to form an educated opinion on the situation therefore I have reserved judgment.

It's fine if you want to wait until you have all the information before getting involved, but there's no need to mock those who are discussing it.

Most of us are just posting what we know/what we heard, and you are mocking people and spreading rumours. That's unnecessary. We're just gathering information and talking about what we know so far.

My father works for the Physical Plant at McMaster so I have a copy of the offer from McMaster. As someone was asking for facts instead of hear say I will post the main points of the offer that was tabled on September 24. If I have time I'll scan some of the pages and post them.

Vacation Time is Reduced Article 16.01 pg. 12
Vacation time is based on the number of years worked. McMaster intends to reduce vacation time. Below I posted the vacation time under the new agreement and the former contract in the brackets.
10 months or less = 1 day for each full month of service [stays the same]
Over 10 months = 2 weeks [stays the same]
Over 4 years = eliminated [was 3 weeks]
Over 10 years = 3 weeks [was 4 weeks]
Over 18 years = 4 weeks [was 5 weeks]
Over 30 years = 5 weeks [was 6 weeks]

Vacation Time can no Longer be Banked Article 16.03 [eliminated] pg. 13
Currently employees who do not use their total allotted vacation time are allowed to carry over 50% of the vacation time to the following year. McMaster has eliminated this.

Premiums are eliminated Article 21.05 (Eliminated) and Article 21.06 (Eliminated) pg. 16
Currently employees who perform certain tasks receive an additional premium on their hourly pay.
Employes required to spray paint [were talking industrial sprayers not cans], hang paper, or operate a chain saw, were entitled to a premium of 35 cents more per hour.
Employees who are required to work on a swing stage, in the carrier basket of a ladder truck, or on an ariel work platform, were entitled to a premium of 80 cents more per hour.
McMaster has eliminated both these premiums from the offer.

Drivers are no Longer Reimbursed Article 21.07 (eliminated) pg. 17
Currently drivers are entitled to be reimbursed for reasonable expenses. McMaster has eliminated this from the offer.

Storm Emergencies Article 21.09 (eliminated) pg. 17
Under the previous agreement during a closed snow day employees were entitled to pay whether they showed up to work or not. This has been eliminated from the current offer.
Under the previous agreement employees who do report to work on a closed snow day and are deemed to be performing an essential service would be entitled to time off equivalent to the time they worked. This has been eliminated under the current agreement.

Sick Leave Eliminated Article 22.01 and Article 22.02 pg. 18
Under McMasters contract offer Employees in job classification 1(Cleaners), classification 2 (Custodian B) and classification 3 (Custodian A and Labourers) will not be paid for any medical absence. Also any accumulated sick days (unused sick days from the previous year/years) are no longer usable.

Unpaid Absence due to Workplace Injury Article 22.05
Under McMasters offer an employee who is absent from work due to an occupational illness or injury that is subject to a WSIB claim will be unpaid for the duration of their absence.

Health Care Benefits Reduced Article 23.01 pg. 22
Employees in job Classifications 2 (Custodian B) and 3 (Custodian A and Labourers) have had their health care benefits reduced. Under the former agreement family coverage was 223.26/month and Single coverage was 100.74/month. Under the new agreement this would be reduced with family coverage being only 110/month and single coverage only 50.00month.

Dental Benefits Reduced Article 23.01 pg. 23
Employees in job Classifications 2 (Custodian B) and 3 (Custodian A and Labourers) have also had their dental care benefits reduced. Currently families are entitled to 143.14/month and single coverage is 61.38/month. Under the new agreement this would be reduced to 70.00/month for a family and 30/month for single coverage.

Contracting Out Article 31.01 (Eliminated) and Article 31.02 (Eliminated) pg. 26
Under the formal agreement the University was only permitted to contract outside work under certain conditions which were laid out in the contract. Contracting could never result in the lay off of existing employees. Also the employer was supposed to make an effort to give the work to existing employees before contracting out the work. For the custodial/cleaning work they were only allowed to contract outside work for the annual move-in/move-out period in September and April, for bona-fide emergencies, and infrequent specialised cleaning.
McMaster has completely eliminated this section of the contract which is very scary for job security.

Pay Cuts Appendix A
Under the offer from McMaster employees in classification 3 (Custodian A and Labourers) and classification 2 (Custodian B) would receive a 2.70% pay cut this year, and would also get a pay cut of 2.66% next year.

To recap these are the main points that the union is disputing in the current offer from McMaster tabled on the 24. I believe it was today or yesterday the union came back with their counter offer.

To put this in perspective McMaster just gave Peter George, the highest paid university president in Ontario who made $500,000 yearly, a $1.4 million dollar retirement package. They also made major job lay offs in the beginning of the summer. Enrolment has increased dramatically and so has tuition. Also as someone pointed out they charge an enormous amount for residency and food. So if the management at Mac has to make cut backs they should really look at their own salary not the work horse that keeps the University running.

Originally Posted by collinbf

...

Quality post man, from this, 'the university' seems very cruel, but isn't as assholish as I had been lead to believe. Some of those things are reasonable cuts that can be arguably necessary to keep the current workforce numbers, but others... like sick leave, injury and contracting out, are ridiculous.

soo many terrible cuts, anything we can do as students to support the workers?

Originally Posted by andrew22

soo many terrible cuts, anything we can do as students to support the workers?

we're already paying higher tuition/res fees
evrything on campus is also a little pricier

Originally Posted by andrew22

soo many terrible cuts, anything we can do as students to support the workers?

Cancel your meal plan and don't eat on campus? I'm considering bringing a lunch.

Wow, collin thanks for posting.

That's disgusting.