Originally Posted by cjdzl

who cares it's high school who the hell actually cares about high school grades

Oh I dunno, but I had heard this crazy rumor that colleges and universities do.

Originally Posted by Freak705

Schools mark too easily, and promote the idea that memorization = useful learning. You can memorize an encyclopedia if you want, but if you can't analyze problems and come up with real-world solutions or innovations, how useful is your 99% grade?

Obligatory health-sci jab (I actually have nothing against them):

"Claudia Frankfurter, a Mississauga resident, scored 99.17 per cent at Holy Name of Mary Catholic Secondary School in Brampton. She plans to start McMaster University's Health Sciences program this September."

Figures, LOL

Health Science is the definition of non-memorization innovated learning. Not sure what your point was.

Originally Posted by Willmountain

hahahaha I was making a witty joke.

The problem is that this happens in the first place. Parents think they want what's best for their kid, so the try to do the teacher's job and essentially hogtying the teacher to give the student high marks. Other students see this happen, and they tell mommy and daddy and it becomes an epidemic.

If some kind of severe penalty is established for padding marks just to get kids into university were imposed, it would suck for those who get padded, and the parents might not like it, but come on. Kids have to be taught lessons, no matter how tough. I had a rough 12th grade academically and I was struggling. My parents refused to talk to my teachers for me, and I had to figure it out. If I didn't get into the uni I wanted, it was my own fault.

It was the best thing they ever did for me.



On the last part. My high school was considered "university prep" which, looking back, was used really loosely. The highest grade in my graduating class (for someone not taking econ, accounting, creative writing etc.) was a 92. Probably one of the smartest kids I know in all aspects. He's a straight up genius.

Wayyyy too many kids fell into the mish mash of between 80-85 though. I pulled myself out of the toilet and managed an 87, but there were almost no kids who managed to not get an 80. They were mostly the ones who just didn't come to school, yet they still managed a 75 and university.

One last thing about this. My buddy who will remain unnamed is probably the most brilliant writer and, I suppose, thinker that I know. The problem is that he has a HORRIBLE work ethic. English teachers (i.e. not math/science) in high school loved him to pieces, so when he would never hand in assignments until a month after they were due, or when he would improvise his evidence in debates with no background research they just shrugged it off and took the assignments with no penalty. It got to the point where he handed in ZERO assignments for Grade 12 Writers Craft and the teacher just shrugged it off and just gave him a 95 in the class because whatever he DID write was worthy of my schools creative writing award.

Off he goes to King's with this attitude and by Christmas, he's on academic probation, by the end of second year he was kicked out of school, got a job at a paint factory, got laid off, and now is working for the discovery channel as an artist by a stroke of dumb luck.

Point is, teachers, parents and students are all a part of a HUGE problem where education is treated like a joke in some respects. Just go to Norway or Iceland or Germany and you see what school can really do for you. It blew my mind when I went over there.

That's pretty cool, sucks for your friend though.

In that case I assume the legitimacy of your school is at risk because they seem to be showing preferential treatment of one student over others. My school didn't have that at all - you could hand in a work worthy of being published but if it was late, it was late.

Then again, I don't think we had one person in grade 12 I'd consider a genius, all the top students were moderately intelligent, hard working students.

So overall I suppose it does depend on the school. I'm sure there was some minor mark inflation based on the fact that it was in grade 12 and such. However even without any adjustments or students begging for higher grades it was quite possible to get above a 95 average. In fact one of my friends, a couple people I know and myself were all around that range or higher. I don't think any of us were granted the opportunity to beg for higher marks.

Regarding the student going into health science, let's say she took bio, chem, physics, 3 math courses, and English. Quite possible to get 99 in every course and maybe like low-to-mid 90s in English. I don't see how that's unreasonable and warrants a discredit of all high school marks anywhere.

this makes me sad...and very disappointed in myself :(
http://dailynews.mcmaster.ca /story.cfm?id=8065
Tallulah Andrews has a perfect 12 GPA, so does some kid in eng.
There was also an article in the spec. about it, it was titled...wait for it:
Nobody's perfect? Meet Tallulah

Geez everyone, don't compare yourself with others.

Yeah, my grades aren't straight A's. That's because I chose not to hole up in the library and study my ass off every night. I balance it with stuff I like to do that has nothing to do with schooling, my friends and my family.

You only get to live once, why stress yourself out with perfect grades when you will still get hired with a B or even a C average.

I guess I am just a laid back type.

Originally Posted by Willmountain

One last thing about this. My buddy who will remain unnamed is probably the most brilliant writer and, I suppose, thinker that I know. The problem is that he has a HORRIBLE work ethic. English teachers (i.e. not math/science) in high school loved him to pieces, so when he would never hand in assignments until a month after they were due, or when he would improvise his evidence in debates with no background research they just shrugged it off and took the assignments with no penalty. It got to the point where he handed in ZERO assignments for Grade 12 Writers Craft and the teacher just shrugged it off and just gave him a 95 in the class because whatever he DID write was worthy of my schools creative writing award.

This exactly is easily the biggest flaw in high school. Someone who hands in their assignments months after the due date should not be given the same marking scheme (i.e. no penalty) as someone who works diligently and gets it done prior to or on the date it is due. That happened so many times at my school and it used to make me so angry. I mean, due dates are there for a reason, are they not?
As for grades themselves, I do agree that no one should be achieving 100% (unless, like you said, they are a legit genius), but I don't really see a problem with high 90s. For me, I graduated with a 94%, but I worked hard for it and I always honoured the due dates.

This is why Ontario needs something like a SAT like in the other provinces. It's not a perfect solution, but it better than letting something so uneven as HS marks determine everything.

/IB is a different category. That system is based almost entirely on end-of-program exams/projects. You have to have a strong show in the end. 100% in English for IB is not as crazy as it sounds. It is very standardized. However, there is a certain amount of wiggle room. for example, if someone's exams came back as level 6 (converted to 90 - 95% in Ontario marks), their teacher decides whether they get 90, 91, 92, 93 94 or 95.

i agree with the many potential issues mentioned here re: high schools and distribution of marks... but i am especially disturbed by the "smarter than parents" part. it's a comparison of apples and oranges. high school 20-odd years ago was SO different than today. first of all there was a grade 13. there were 3 levels of learning each class: remedial, basic and advanced. only "academically gifted" students were supposed to be geared towards the advanced classes and grade 13 where it was assumed that they'd then go off to university (grade 12 was for college). there was no extra requirement like today with extra-curricular activities, etc. and marks over 90% were virtually unheard of. you had to be beyond exceptional and you might have those marks in a class or two, but you'd be lucky if one person in the entire school had an overall average over 90%. parents didn't come in and "shake down" the teachers in defense of their kids' marks either.

all in all, as the article doesn't define what measurement they're even using on the parents' generation, nor do they seem to be taking any of these factors into consideration, i find it an erroneous statement.

i am so smart, i am so smart.. S-M-R-T

That Simon Younan guy makes me wish I reapplied as a LEAP staff member this year.

Originally Posted by Entropy

That Simon Younan guy makes me wish I reapplied as a LEAP staff member this year.

Hah!

Are you gonna make him miserable?

Originally Posted by britb

This is why Ontario needs something like an SAT like in the other provinces. It's not a perfect solution, but it better than letting something so uneven as HS marks determine everything.

/IB is a different category. That system is based almost entirely on end-of-program exams/projects. You have to have a strong show in the end. 100% in English for IB is not as crazy as it sounds. It is very standardized. However, there is a certain amount of wiggle room. for example, if someone's exams came back as level 6 (converted to 90 - 95% in Ontario marks), their teacher decides whether they get 90, 91, 92, 93 94 or 95.

The problem with standardized testing in that format/situation becomes the same problem with the MCAT, as I'm sure you're aware =P

It becomes a competition and people capitalize on it by taking advantages that they don't necessarily need. For example, prep classes, textbooks, tutors - using these resources are going to make it far more likely for a person to get a high mark on a standardized test, even if they aren't normally as good a student as another person.

Anyone can work hard for 1-2 months, pay money for resources not everyone can afford, and destroy a standardized test. Especially if it means being more likely to get into a good university and get scholarships.

Does not matter, when they come to University, they are going to get a reality check. My friend went to an IB school (95%)... now, he gets 6's in the engineering program.


rough.

Originally Posted by CAHopeful

friend went to an IB school (95%)... now, he gets 6's in the engineering program.


rough.

That's about half the people I know in engineering. Went to a highschool that didn't give homework and never had even one lab report - got curbstomped in first year.

It kind of annoyed me in first year that these people got to keep their 'free choice' thing.

The worst part is, it doesn't end at highschool. I still have dumbasses going through my program who have no idea how to program computers. They just copy assignments and 'memorize' old exams/test to barely squeek by. No idea what's going to happen to them once they get their degree :/.

Thank you pretentious science student, your opinion is wrong, but thank you

Originally Posted by Con19

Thank you pretentious science student, your opinion is wrong, but thank you

If you're gonna troll, try harder.