With all of the high profile strikes going on right now, I was wondering what people's opinions on labour unions were around here. I'm not sure if there's many people here who are paying attention, or even know what organized labour is about, but I'm interested in finding out.

I understand that this could very quickly become a heated debate, so straight from the get-go, please keep the conversation germane and keep the language parliamentary.

My opinion: I believe that labour unions once served a very important purpose, but are now obsolete. Back in the late 1800's and early-to-mid 1900's, unions became very important in fighting for worker's rights. Back then it was possible for a worker to be forced into long hours (12 hours plus) with few or no breaks, and even without weekends. Unions fought to gain workers those rights, and many more.

However, today those rights are all protected by government, and most of the time, unions only serve to increase wages and benefits. Is this necessary? Absolutely not! If unions could bargain in good faith, that would be one thing, but today, all we see is unions striking at opportune times (such as the Windsor and Toronto public employees strikes in high summer/tourism season), or the possible VIA strike (during peak travel season). Unions also seem to enjoy forcing employers to pay out more in benefits and wages than the employer can actually afford. All that ends up happening is the employer moves their operation to another location, be that in another place in Canada, or even overseas.

Now, I'm not against the freedom to organize. I believe that it's a fundamental right for people to get together and work towards common goals, should that be desired. However, I also believe that people should have the freedom from union membership, should they so choose.

Right now in Canada, if you want to work for an employer where a union operates, then you are forced to join and pay the dues, even if you don't want to. How is that fair? I should be allowed to work wherever I want to, provided I'm qualified. I shouldn't be forced to pay anyone anything if I don't want a service provided to me.

The best solution for Canada is right-to-work legislation. This legislation makes it illegal for a union to force employees to join and pay dues. There's 22 states in the US with right-to-work, and studies have shown that those states are more productive, employ more people, and contain more business/larger economies than "closed shop" states.

I really wish right-to-work could be implemented in Canada, and I've written to my MP about it, but I honestly doubt it will happen since Canada tends to be very liberal-leaning, and right-to-work is a little bit more of a conservative idea (I personally am a liberal, but unions are pretty much the only conservative point-of-view that I carry).

What do you all think?

Oooh. Good discussion topic to bring up!

This will be especially important later this year since another CUPE contract at Mac for professors (I think sessional, though I'm not 100% sure) comes up in the fall.

I support unions because they collectively speak for those who can't speak themselves. My mum's job has her working her fingers to the bone; she's on her feet a great deal and even experienced severe damage to her toes due to the lack of rest. And here's the interesting thing - she works in healthcare.
She's not in a union but if she was, she wouldn't be getting $1 above minimum wage for several months, and she and workers like her could get those benefits since we have 4 kids in our family and no insurance to cover any of our expenses, and leave without fearing that her shifts will go away to younger less experienced employees.

Edit: I'll add more in a later post. It's late now

I personally think that unions are starting to come extremely close to overstepping the line between pushing for more equitable and desirable work conditions, and simply striking to leverage a better position EVEN if there isn't any threat to begin with.

We've heard it all before - especially in an economy such as this, it is incredibly irresponsible and almost selfish to have a chokehold on essential services (i.e. in Toronto) and to drag it on for so long. Granted, the City of Toronto has to negotiate as well, but with the York situation that was so dirty and drawn out, there has to be some responsibility on BOTH sides to reduce the negative effects of the strike.


Edit: Bushra, I really feel for your Mom's situation and in that case, the employer has to seriously re-evaluate the way workers are compensated. However, I think that the main issue that many people have with unions is at workplaces where there isn't really an imminent threat and unions are simply trying to leverage for better conditions out of nowhere. It's almost like "Sure, we have an option to strike - let's do it." It really takes away from legitimate cases like the threat of sessional instructors at MAC losing their jobs.

Let me start off by saying I live in Toronto, which seems to be the epicentre of strikes. With the strikes that have gone on in the past, and the current city strike which has the city smelling ... not pleasant, you can imagine my anger. It's not just about the increased volume of racoons, rats and lemony pesticides to keep the smell at bay though. People forget to think about all the workers that are pulled into this bs. Unions have already served their purpose after the Industrial Revolution when things were really not so good back then. But now? Yeah, I don't think so.

The current strike in Toronto obviously wasn't well thought out. First of all, I don't really know what kind of offer they're looking for, but is it really worth it? It's putting hundreds of people out of jobs during a rather difficult economic time, and when this is all over, the people in charge of garbage have to haul ass and deal with all the dumps in the end - and for what? A relatively small increase in wages? Give me a break. Then you have ambulances being late and causing really unfortunate events which are not really worth it at all.

Strikes are just huge inconvieniences for the public. Like the York strike, the TTC strike, I could go on. I think that, there's always tons of people within the unions who don't care and want to work - let them work. The only problem is, I think they get some sort of consequence. One of my family's friends works with the city as a social worker, and she wants to go back to work, but I forget what will happen to her. Is that even fair? Did she really ask to be part of a union? Nope. She just wanted to work.

So I completely agree with this right-to-work legislation, but I think it would piss a lot of people off, especially people who love unions (although I can't imagine who would). Unfortunately for the strike going on now, I don't think you can just declare it an essential service like the TTC or force them to go back to work like with York. :/

I understand that Unions strike for a reason, sometimes for a good one. But it's just not fair to a lot of people. There must be other avenues of getting what workers want, in the best interests of everyone involved.

Originally Posted by feonateresa

Unfortunately for the strike going on now, I don't think you can just declare it an essential service like the TTC or force them to go back to work like with York. :/

Actually both of those scenarios are possible, however the government has already stated that they don't want to get involved.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

Actually both of those scenarios are possible, however the government has already stated that they don't want to get involved.

Pfft. Thanks Ontario.

Though, I sort of understand. I don't necessarily think the city workers as being part of something that's essential to the public, but perhaps certain aspects of it. I heard about ambulances and water treatment plants being affected by it. This could get more serious than it needs to be. I can handle stink and no ferry rides but I can't handle my water and potential emergencies being put at risk.

City of Toronto seems to be surviving on a skeleton workforce.

Begs the question of how many municipal workers are actually needed.

Originally Posted by lorend

This will be especially important later this year since another CUPE contract at Mac for professors (I think sessional, though I'm not 100% sure) comes up in the fall.

Whuh oh. ):

That's never good news.

Personally, I hate unions. They were started for good reason, in a different day and age, when there was no such thing as a minimum wage, or safety laws (among other things). Unions now though are outdated and have FAR too much power. There is no reason for government employees making $50,000 a year need a union.

As for the current strike situation, i see it as a complete slap in the face to the average working man. Right now, I make roughly $30,000 a year. I get 10 unpaid sick days a year, and a decent benefits plan from my employer, which includes an optional RRSP plan.

These government employees in Toronto make 11.6% higher wages than people doing the same job in the private sector, on average (according to a repot released by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business in December '08), yet they still want a 3% per year raise in the new contract, plus their 18 paid sick days which they can roll over until they retire, and cash in up to 6 months worth of sick days they never took. We're in the middle of the biggest economic crisis since the '30s. Millions of people around the world are unemployed, which of course means less tax dollars coming in globally. People are losing cars and homes. Every other business (hyperbole ) in the world is making drastic cutbacks to avoid bankruptcy, and CUPE is demanding more money and no loss of this sick day/retirement benefit? How is this fair to the average working person that makes less than them and pays their taxes so that these people can go on strike, claiming it's "not a fair contact"?

Like I said....there was a time when unions were a huge benefit to workers on the whole, but there's no need for these sort of demands any more.

I believe that unions have a place at some companies. I knew someone who worked in the healhtcare sector and the retirement home that he worked at did not have a union so whenever he got into a car accident and was hurt he was not given leave with pay. He was forced to take some days off without getting paid and then he had to go back into work before he was fully recovered because he could not afford to go without being paid for so long. He, and some of the workers at his job, decided to fight to get a union and they put it to a vote at his workplace and it ended up not going through. His employer knew that he was the one who wanted the union. So not long after the vote happened, he was fired. If his workplace had had a union none of these things would have happened to him.

As someone already mentioned, they used to serve and am currently serving some justified purpose. Nowadays? I am not so sure. Although I believe the unions are essential in a way to deliver an opinion of workers and maintaining some rights, the unions should not be bullying or forcing the employers to agree to whatever they ask. Also, they should consider what kind of inconvenience they would put on other people before they go on a strike.. If they were to go on a strike, they should maintain the current service at the minimal amount at least. For example, they could have two buses an hour instead of 4 an hour or collect garbage every two weeks instead of every week. However, this does not happen at all! They just stop everything. They technically freeze the industry.
It's a very childish act - children do not stop crying until they get what they want and do not care what takes in order to achieve it.

As for Toronto, I really think the union has already stepped out of line - Sure, they can "not collect" garbage - but with what rights and why are they blocking the temp sites? lol. I find it really really frustrating.
Also considering their average education level, they are getting paid amazingly well. It's about $30~35 an hour if you assume their salary is 60k a year (Don't forget all the benefits! lol). While all those immigrants with high education level who are probably very capable of what those public officers are doing are struggling to find a proper job, these people are complaining. LOL.

p.s. in my mother country, public officers never go on a strike at all lol - it is just ridiculous.

They voted yesterday. They're also voting today and I believe Monday (don't quote me on that) for a strike. I don't know all of the people who'd be involved. However, if McMaster does go on strike it'll be on September 1st and some services include Career Services, Financial Aid, Registrar's Office. Oh unions and McMaster why can't you just get along

That would be too easy.
Plus if they get along with their employer the union members will realize just how useless their unions have become.

People who think unions are useless haven't worked in dangerous conditions. Your well-being may be ensured legally by the government, but employers will often overlook safety rules and regulations. The only people who are going to fight for you are unions.

Of course this is only facet of unions.