This is probably the stupidest question I will ever ask on MacInsiders. You have been warned. Okay, so student employees obviously aren't unionized. So, if something happens then do we go to the MSU? The MSU does so much that I can't keep track. Or do we go to someone else who deals with work grievances?

I'm glad this topic came up. I HATE unions (big ones at least). I agree, they were meaningful a long time ago when employers were known to screw over their employers, but have since become obsolete.

My dad is especially angered by them, since one of his close uncles was driven out of business by them. Apparently the St. Lawrence market in Toronto used to be owned by one of my great uncles, and he paid his workers fairly and gave them decent benefits. Then the ******* union leaders came along and convinced the workers they were actually getting a terrible deal, and started making ridiculous demands that the company simply couldn't afford. Eventually the business went close to bankrupt and he had to sell the company at a massive loss to some Japanese business men. I wonder what that gained for the union in the end, because I'm sure corporate leaders from the Asian market are not at all familiar nor care about the concept of unions .

This is ridiculous considering people in some unionized jobs already make more money than some of those in more "prestigious" fields (i.e. a garbage man starting makes $25 an hour, and can get paid for an 8 hour day even if he/she does it in 3 ...).

I don't think the government should meet any of their demands. If they do, it's probably just going to result in other unions in different sectors striking, since they'll think there's more money to be given out.

Originally Posted by caliver

As for Toronto, I really think the union has already stepped out of line - Sure, they can "not collect" garbage - but with what rights and why are they blocking the temp sites? lol. I find it really really frustrating.

Just run them over :p

I dislike unions, but I understand their purpose.
I do not believe that they should be allowed to strike if you are holding a third party hostage (such as students, or the public in general)
Also, I think it is wrong for the union to be political, I understand lobbying the government, but when union leaders are activily out and holding rallies as the leader for a certain party, that is overstepping what unions are for.
I do believe that the time of the big union has come and gone. I dont think they should be abolished, just severly scaled back.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

Just run them over :p

I almost did lol. no kidding. i had to block one lane of finch avenue, which is quite busy, because they were picketing from the entrance lol
the other day, they didn't do that - maybe they realized it was stupid. but i still had to wait on the way to the dump site lol. i asked them why they were doing this.. here was their response - so that people can empathize them and support them eventually lol.

Unions 'bully' employers? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that large corporations/companies are bullied by anyone? I don't understand why there is such intense anti-union sentiment. Unions do A LOT more than just collective bargaining.

Unions are very important members of the social justice movement. They run awareness campaigns, do enormous amounts of charity work, and lobby various levels of government on behalf of all working class people. Their mandate isn't to just represent workers at the bargaining table, they're dedicated to greater economic and social equality.

Obviously there is corruption in some unions, I'm not saying there isn't. I just think everyone should become more educated about the different unions, what they have accomplished and what they're fighting for before writing off all unions as 'obsolete' or evil in some way.

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

Unions 'bully' employers? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that large corporations/companies are bullied by anyone? I don't understand why there is such intense anti-union sentiment. Unions do A LOT more than just collective bargaining.

Unions are very important members of the social justice movement. They run awareness campaigns, do enormous amounts of charity work, and lobby various levels of government on behalf of all working class people. Their mandate isn't to just represent workers at the bargaining table, they're dedicated to greater economic and social equality.

Obviously there is corruption in some unions, I'm not saying there isn't. I just think everyone should become more educated about the different unions, what they have accomplished and what they're fighting for before writing off all unions as 'obsolete' or evil in some way.

You obviously don't live in Toronto, lol.

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

Unions 'bully' employers? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that large corporations/companies are bullied by anyone? I don't understand why there is such intense anti-union sentiment. Unions do A LOT more than just collective bargaining.

Unions are very important members of the social justice movement. They run awareness campaigns, do enormous amounts of charity work, and lobby various levels of government on behalf of all working class people. Their mandate isn't to just represent workers at the bargaining table, they're dedicated to greater economic and social equality.

Obviously there is corruption in some unions, I'm not saying there isn't. I just think everyone should become more educated about the different unions, what they have accomplished and what they're fighting for before writing off all unions as 'obsolete' or evil in some way.

Let me make amendments to my words then. They bully employers or third party people in order to get what they want.
I am not saying unions are unnecessary. Rather, although they are necessary for working class people in various aspects, they've been abusing their power recently. They are stepping out of line. They are overdoing what they are made for.
And I believe they are getting things very well anyway -- compare them to people who have received way higher education yet still have no job or jobs with minimum wage. They are getting all those benefits along with $35 an hour. I am sure there will be tons of unemployed people who would be willing to collect garbage for $ 17 an hour (me included ) (I've actually heard of a story of a person who has life sci degree and couldn't find a job so he had to take a minimum wage job)

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

You obviously don't live in Toronto, lol.

Yeah, living in Toronto makes you sick of strikes. They affect your life atrociously.

Originally Posted by ferreinm

This is probably the stupidest question I will ever ask on MacInsiders. You have been warned. Okay, so student employees obviously aren't unionized. So, if something happens then do we go to the MSU? The MSU does so much that I can't keep track. Or do we go to someone else who deals with work grievances?

The MSU is a Student's Union, rather than a Labour Union... they're different things. Student employees are more than welcome to go to anyone within the organization to get help if they need it however, and that means they could go to their manager, they could go to the VP Administration, they could go to SRA members, etc. If MSU employees are having issues, I'd imagine that we would fairly easy to deal with since we're students as well.

We're not a labour union however, we're more of a student government and employer.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

The MSU is a Student's Union, rather than a Labour Union... they're different things. Student employees are more than welcome to go to anyone within the organization to get help if they need it however, and that means they could go to their manager, they could go to the VP Administration, they could go to SRA members, etc. If MSU employees are having issues, I'd imagine that we would fairly easy to deal with since we're students as well.

We're not a labour union however, we're more of a student government and employer.

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. So, who would we speak to? Not that I have a problem I have the most amazing boss in the world.

Originally Posted by .:callen:.

Unions 'bully' employers? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that large corporations/companies are bullied by anyone? I don't understand why there is such intense anti-union sentiment. Unions do A LOT more than just collective bargaining.

Look at what the unions are conveniently doing to VIA right now. They are most likely going to strike in just about an hour now, and it's right in the middle of tourism/travel season, in the middle of a recession. I don't know about you, to me that looks like bullying. VIA is already not the most profitable business, and the union is prepared to strangle them until they die.

Unions are very important members of the social justice movement. They run awareness campaigns, do enormous amounts of charity work, and lobby various levels of government on behalf of all working class people. Their mandate isn't to just represent workers at the bargaining table, they're dedicated to greater economic and social equality.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but if the unions are running campaigns and doing charity work then they are doing a pretty terrible job of making it known to the public.

Obviously there is corruption in some unions, I'm not saying there isn't. I just think everyone should become more educated about the different unions, what they have accomplished and what they're fighting for before writing off all unions as 'obsolete' or evil in some way.

I'm sorry, but after hearing the stories I've heard from my family members and from many other people, unions are pretty much permanently evil in my mind. They're petty (my Dad once couldn't plug in a lamp at work, because union wouldn't let him. They forced him to pay their unionized electrician to plug in the lamp for him). Corruption is another entire ballpark. Look at how these unions operate within the workplace... in many cases they do very little, but force all employees to pay dues. Then, the union reps get their nice jackets, trips, in some cases nice cars, etc all on the dime of the workers.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I will ever be pro-union. Regardless, right-to-work legislation would make me happy.

Originally Posted by ferreinm

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. So, who would we speak to? Not that I have a problem I have the most amazing boss in the world.

If you're employed by a different employer (ie not the MSU) then you could speak to your manager directly, or otherwise depending on the specific problem then you would contact the appropriate government board (ex: the labour board if you were being screwed on your breaks).

Also, remember that you have the right to refuse unsafe work, and you can't be fired for it.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

They forced him to pay their unionized electrician to plug in the lamp for him).

For some reason I initially read that as un-ionized electrician, lol. Anyway, ya, that's really stupid. I bet it cost a fortune for the amount of work it took too, am I right?

Toronto smells like ass, I work at a swimming pool on Finch, but the strikers aren't incredibly wrong, one of their issues is keeping sick days they have banked. I'd be pretty pissed to if i worked and accumulated a years worth of sick day and someone told me I couldn't have them anymore. But at the same time they are also demanding alot more, maybe too much, and they constantly cry recession as the reason. That in itself isnt fair, because thousands have lost jobs because of the recession just look at the auto industry.

I also think its very inconvenient when a strike affects public services. The garbage not only makes Toronto smell, but it stops kids from going to parks, day camps and other recreational services.

Honestly with unions its a love hate relationship, they have done some good but they also created more problems than they can solve.

More cities should be like Mississauga, I cant remember the last time there was a strike here.