http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...15566-sun.html

Another case of the fine work of Unions! I read another article this morning about Unions blocking access to dumps in TO as well, I'll try to find that as well. Although any residents of TO could tell us straight up if they've heard that.

To be fair though, in the Ottawa/Carleton case the unions didn't end up blocking them from the exams, iirc. I'm relatively sure they just delayed the shuttle for a while before dispersing.

Thats still not acceptable behaviour, but it didn't actually cause anyone to miss their exams as far as I know.

reeves: Would you mind, if it's not too personal that is, indulging us with your story? Like what prompted you to enter the workforce, did you finish highschool on schedule or did you complete it later, what sort of work have you done, what made you reconsider university, and things like that?

Forgive my fascination, but most people here (myself included) are those young whippersnappers who go to university straight from highschool and haven't appreciated 'real life' as much as someone who had to work a full time job.

Anyway, I just think it'd be neat to hear, and could help people appreciate the gift they've been given, namely the opportunity to attend university.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

reeves: Would you mind, if it's not too personal that is, indulging us with your story? Like what prompted you to enter the workforce, did you finish highschool on schedule or did you complete it later, what sort of work have you done, what made you reconsider university, and things like that?

Forgive my fascination, but most people here (myself included) are those young whippersnappers who go to university straight from highschool and haven't appreciated 'real life' as much as someone who had to work a full time job.

Anyway, I just think it'd be neat to hear, and could help people appreciate the gift they've been given, namely the opportunity to attend university.

Ya, I'm also curious :p.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

reeves: Would you mind, if it's not too personal that is, indulging us with your story? Like what prompted you to enter the workforce, did you finish highschool on schedule or did you complete it later, what sort of work have you done, what made you reconsider university, and things like that?

Forgive my fascination, but most people here (myself included) are those young whippersnappers who go to university straight from highschool and haven't appreciated 'real life' as much as someone who had to work a full time job.

Anyway, I just think it'd be neat to hear, and could help people appreciate the gift they've been given, namely the opportunity to attend university.

Haha I don't mind. If it was personal, I kinda ruined it by bringing it to the forums

I was a bad student in high school. Hell, I was a bad person in high school. I skipped class, didn't do my assignments, didn't show for tests, got in fights, did drugs, drinking, yadda yadda yadda. Somehow I'd still manage to score 90%+ on all my exams though, even when I literally skipped a semester, without reading the material. So basically university, or even community college, was not much of an option for me with my whopping 53% average on graduation, which took me an extra year to achieve. My parents of course weren't happy, and told me to either get a job and support myself, or get out. So I got a job.

It was a crappy market research outbound call center job. It sucked, but the people were great, and some I'm still friends with 12 years later. It also taught me that real life is not at all like high school. I matured pretty quickly in the work environment. I stayed at that job for over 3 years, and by the time I left, I'd moved up 3 steps on the ladder, to call center middle management, working up to 66 hours a week. I left that job for another one, where I ran the entire call center. Hired, trained, supervised, disciplined, promoted, and fired the staff. The project we worked on was hard, and like a hockey coach of a losing team, i lost my job.

Being a big guy, my uncle offered me a job working with him in the moving industry, so I went and did that. People will call movers all sorts of names, but regardless, I got to meet truckloads of people, from all walks of life. And I got paid to exercise while working outdoors. A month at the gym didn't give me as much muscle as 1 week at the movers. Plus $100 tips didn't hurt

After 2 years of that, I left due to back pain, and got my current job, dong tech support for a company contracted by Apple. They paid for me to get Apple Certified, which would have cost me about $4500 on my own, and I'm working with computers, which is fun as hell. I learned how to build my own computers, and how to fix other peoples. As long as its a Mac lol.

But those exam scores always stuck in my mind. If I could score 96% on a history exam for a class i didn't attend, what could I do if I cared? So I threw out an application. 1 application, to 1 school. And I got accepted. So here I am, ready to start school, when my baby cousin is finishing her Doctorate. And I'm scared shitless about it.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm killing time at work. I'm done.

Originally Posted by reeves

I'd still manage to score 90%+ on all my exams though

my whopping 53% average on graduation

Mark, you make a very convincing argument here however there is one small problem here:

I am one of these "die hard anti-unionists" you speak of, and I can promise you I do not side with the corporations. Companies will do anything they can to make more money. I have yet to see or hear about an all round good (in the non-business sense of the word) corporation. I side with me, and I will speak for myself. I know what my rights are, and anyone entering the workforce should know theirs as well.

Not everyone is like you, independent, industrious and able to represent their rights. Infact I did take a look at your work history and I don't reckon any of your work experiences are in a situation where you might be threatened by a profit mongering corpoation or government bueracracy. You have worked for small scale Tertiary service industry buisnesses where things are much different from the Primary and Secondary Industries. Therfore I honestly don't think the variables of a steel plant workers union, Pilots Union, Farmers Co-operate apply to your argument nor your personal experiences here. A workers union isn't required at a call centre or a moving company owned by you uncle, but it definitely isn't obsolete in the primary and secondary industries.

The point I'm trying to make is that the whole me against everyone notion cannot be applied universally. Workers all over the world canot be protected by being individuals, they need collective efforts to fight of the corporations, though it is entirely a different problem that more often then not the unions step out of bounds and stir up needless trouble and make ridiculous demands.

I am neither for or against unions, but with all this anti union sentiment on this board summed up by your epic "arugment winning" post; people need to realize that the common man is no match for his employers.
Cheers!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

I am neither for or against unions

I think you'd have quite a different opinion of unions if you had been living in Toronto over this summer.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Mark, you make a very convincing argument here however there is one small problem here:

Not everyone is like you, independent, industrious and able to represent their rights. Infact I did take a look at your work history and I don't reckon any of your work experiences are in a situation where you might be threatened by a profit mongering corpoation or government bueracracy. You have worked for small scale Tertiary service industry buisnesses where things are much different from the Primary and Secondary Industries. Therfore I honestly don't think the variables of a steel plant workers union, Pilots Union, Farmers Co-operate apply to your argument nor your personal experiences here. A workers union isn't required at a call centre or a moving company owned by you uncle, but it definitely isn't obsolete in the primary and secondary industries.

The point I'm trying to make is that the whole me against everyone notion cannot be applied universally. Workers all over the world canot be protected by being individuals, they need collective efforts to fight of the corporations, though it is entirely a different problem that more often then not the unions step out of bounds and stir up needless trouble and make ridiculous demands.

I am neither for or against unions, but with all this anti union sentiment on this board summed up by your epic "arugment winning" post; people need to realize that the common man is no match for his employers.
Cheers!

I know it's not the same as factory or industrial work. There are several obvious differences. The problem with the unions, in any environment, is that it is a "blanket plan" for all employees, regardless of skill, dedication, or any other factors. All employees are treated equally, which is great from a humanitarian standpoint, but outright shitty otherwise. If you and I both have the same job, with the same experience and tenure, with you as a dedicated hard working person, and I'm a lazy slacker, should I be entitled to the same raises and benefits you are? how is that fair to you?

And a lot of what I said all comes back to the laws in effect now, vs what was in effect at the time unions were formed. WSIB and ESA didnt exist. there was no standardized safety precautions for handling and disposing of hazardous materials. Workers were at serious risk of personal injury, or even death in some cases, and no laws existed to protect them. That is no longer the case, in any industry. You cry "WSIB" to any employer, in any industry, and they will do what it takes for you to be comfortable, if for no reason other than the paperwork a WSIB claim incurs on them, plus possible investigation.

The common man is not a match for employers, but the government can be, and even is, more often than a lot of people realize.

Originally Posted by reeves

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm killing time at work. I'm done.

Thanks for an enjoyable read!

So here I am, ready to start school, when my baby cousin is finishing her Doctorate. And I'm scared shitless about it.

Don't worry about it haha...you'll do awesomely, given that now you've stepped up and want to do the work. (:

Just make sure you don't get discouraged if some of your first term paper grades etc. are a bit lower than you'd hoped. I've seen a few people get disappointed by them, but if you take it as a learning process (which I'm sure you're going to do) you can learn from your mistakes rather quickly, and grades can always be pulled up if you persevere.

(I have an older sibling who is in a situation similar to yours...currently working to get into university after several years off of highschool, and I gave the same advice. (: )

Originally Posted by Mowicz

Thanks for an enjoyable read!



Don't worry about it haha...you'll do awesomely, given that now you've stepped up and want to do the work. (:

Just make sure you don't get discouraged if some of your first term paper grades etc. are a bit lower than you'd hoped. I've seen a few people get disappointed by them, but if you take it as a learning process (which I'm sure you're going to do) you can learn from your mistakes rather quickly, and grades can always be pulled up if you persevere.

(I have an older sibling who is in a situation similar to yours...currently working to get into university after several years off of highschool, and I gave the same advice. (: )

I'm not worried about the work. I adapt quick. It's the social aspect that worries me. Im from a different generation, with different thoughts and outlooks than most other people I'll be sharing a classroom with. Thankfully I look 20-25 when I shave, so as long as i do that, I won't look too out of place

Originally Posted by reeves

I'm not worried about the work. I adapt quick. It's the social aspect that worries me. Im from a different generation, with different thoughts and outlooks than most other people I'll be sharing a classroom with. Thankfully I look 20-25 when I shave, so as long as i do that, I won't look too out of place

I'm not sure what courses you'll be taking, but if you have group work, this could be more beneficial than you think. You have a different outlook and will add tremendously to group work and discussions!

Originally Posted by tauntobr

I'm not sure what courses you'll be taking, but if you have group work, this could be more beneficial than you think. You have a different outlook and will add tremendously to group work and discussions!

Thanks for the optimism! Hopefully you're right.

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

I think you'd have quite a different opinion of unions if you had been living in Toronto over this summer.

pzztt you suburban kiddes :p I spent 18 years in Karachi Pakistan. An Urban dump of 16 million people, We actually don't have anything called littering laws or any trash pickup thingies or a working Sewage system! Soo lol I'm pretty unaffected by Trash Pileups, but I understand the Garbage Issue has really skyrocketed the sentiments!

And Mike, I reaaaalllyyy feel for you. You will have a horrible first few months during tutorial discussions, the level of immaturity and silly comments from Upper Middle/Upper Class kids(who mostly end up in socsci after being not so good in school and not willing to work hard for sciency stuff either) will be just *facepalm* every single tutorial! They will dismiss your real life experiences(Which I believe will give you an edge, just like my international experience did) with their suburban bubble assumptions. But the T.A's will love you for the edge you bring to discussions!

I had pretty much lost all hope in higher education initially! And I don't think its getting any better this year by looking at the questions I recieved and the level of laziness I saw as an admin of the Socsci 2013 group regarding SOLAR and other such easy stuff!

Originally Posted by reeves

Maybe it's because I was raised by 2 accountants (both now retired), but putting money away for your future seems like common sense. Not relying on sick days. What would they do if they caught some debilitating disease, and had to use all their days? Those days are for sickness, not for banking your retirement on.

Your circumstances, as everyone's, have unique elements that have shaped your opinions.

That being said, its not fair to paint all unionized employees as individuals who would block welfare recipients and school children from receiving services they need. That is not fair, completely baseless and rather insulting.

There are cases of workers being dismissed because of complaints to government labour relations boards and for the act of unionizing. Just because you haven't seen it personally, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Unions are now, and will be a universal need until corporations and government bodies take a little more social responsibility then they have in the past and respect the rights of the worker and the rights of the shareholder equally.

And believe me, every promotion, every raise and every damned pat on the back I've gotten has been well deserved thanks to my own hard work. No person negotiating for me has gotten me that, no person negotiating for me has told someone to promote me...my union representatives ensure that I don't loose my job and that I am well protected. And for that, I am eternally grateful.

Because, whereas our circumstances are different, I may be at more of a disadvantage then you, but that does not make me any less worthy to have the same opportunities as you do.

Originally Posted by c.erl

Unions are now, and will be a universal need until corporations and government bodies take a little more social responsibility then they have in the past and respect the rights of the worker and the rights of the shareholder equally.

Already done. It's illegal to do things like fire people for talking to the labour board. That's not an acceptable reason.

Sorry, I haven't seen any real evidence to show that in today's day and age, unions are necessary. They're only protected by our Charter right to assemble. Unions are obsolete.