I think we should try and convince UTS to switch our email (and other?) systems to Google Apps; they have an entire system setup for universities/institutions, and it has worked very well at other much larger schools as well (Arizona State), and some closer to Mac's size (Northwestern).

It is free for the school to use, and Google would handle all of the server load, virus protection, etc....

http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/edu/index.html


Thoughts?

I think theres an issue of security or somesuch with student IDs. I wouldnt mind it too much though(I like MUSS for email).

But our email is based on mac IDs, not student numbers. Also, we wouldn't have to use the Google domain name; they would let us keep using "@mcmaster.ca"

Also... how many times do you know of that Google's email servers have been hacked?

I'm just tired of the 1963 user interface lol. And the poor storage capacity. And the poor features. And lack of features.

It's not intended to be used as you describe. And the interface is perfect for those with bad connections, it loads super duper fast. If you don't like any of those things, it should take you 5 minutes MAX to set it up so you never have to see it again.And google would have access to our MAC ID's and Student numbers(did you know you can send a message to [email protected] a???). With your MacID, it is concievable someone could access your SOLAR, etc. Oh and you forgot the Chinese attack on Google from a few days ago

While I love Google Apps is it really necessary to switch? I mean they should focus on doing something about the mess that is MUGSI/SOLAR and now ELM before they worry about the e-mail system, at least it works as advertised.

Sure its not attractive or as feature rich as something like Google but what do you really use it for other than to communicate with Profs and TAs, and maybe receive communication from your Faculty. Plus you can just forward your Mac e-mails to your personal account. I do that and I only log into the McMaster system if I need to send a reply to a Professor/TA via that account.

I'd much rather resources go into fixing the problems with the above mentioned services.

Considering this is a move that would require very little effort on Mac's part, and would free up people working on email now to work on more pressing issues (I've had no problems with ELM yet, but SOLAR is still a big issue), I'm all for it.

Admittedly I'm a huge Google fanboy, so I'm a bit biased.

Also, the Chinese attack wasn't successful, if I understand correctly. The issue is that they attempted it.

Originally Posted by sew12

While I love Google Apps is it really necessary to switch? I mean they should focus on doing something about the mess that is MUGSI/SOLAR and now ELM before they worry about the e-mail system, at least it works as advertised.

Sure its not attractive or as feature rich as something like Google but what do you really use it for other than to communicate with Profs and TAs, and maybe receive communication from your Faculty. Plus you can just forward your Mac e-mails to your personal account. I do that and I only log into the McMaster system if I need to send a reply to a Professor/TA via that account.

I'd much rather resources go into fixing the problems with the above mentioned services.

You can set up google to send your emails through muss to make it come from that account as well!!

Originally Posted by adrian

You can set up google to send your emails through muss to make it come from that account as well!!

Oh really?

I must set that up, then I don't have to look at that ugly interface anymore.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

Considering this is a move that would require very little effort on Mac's part, and would free up people working on email now to work on more pressing issues (I've had no problems with ELM yet, but SOLAR is still a big issue), I'm all for it.

Admittedly I'm a huge Google fanboy, so I'm a bit biased.

Also, the Chinese attack wasn't successful, if I understand correctly. The issue is that they attempted it.

The chinese attack was successful, but they couldn't get into Googles secure Database. They got into the portal google set-up for the FBI that allows you to see sender, reciever and subject. The only reason that portal even exists is because far too many US Legacy laws are being transferred to the internet (sender, reciever and subject = the outside of an envelop which they are allowed to see with a normal warrant, but opening a physical envelop requires special permission from a court). The whole chinese attack thing is a big cluster****though and I'd prefer if we stay off google apps. Google is well and good, but they've been making some pretty scaring expansionist actions as of late.

I am of the opinion that the University should stay strong and independent. The moment the University starts relying on others to manage information and systems, is the moment the University loses ultimate control over its information resources.

Slippery slope argument included.

This is not to say that the current systems in use should not be improved - they should - but they should do it independently.

As everyone pointed out above, the Chinese weren't that successful, and they DEFINITELY didn't make any headway into the email servers that run gmail.

I would be the first one crying foul if they were able to pull that off and would probably leave most of google services in favour of my own server.

Having Google run our email and other systems would actually help MUGSI/SOLAR since we could either give those systems the old email servers and/or we would focus more of UTS' focus onto MUGSI/solar/ELM.

And I'm not promoting this for purely aesthetic reasons; the only time I go into my actual MUSS account is to delete messages when the inbox approaches its miniscule limit.

I'm not sure I see where there are any downsides to adopting this idea.

Originally Posted by Taunton

I am of the opinion that the University should stay strong and independent. The moment the University starts relying on others to manage information and systems, is the moment the University loses ultimate control over its information resources.

Slippery slope argument included.

This is not to say that the current systems in use should not be improved - they should - but they should do it independently.

This is just rabble rousing. We ALREADY rely on others to manage our information and systems to a large degree.

How does using Google apps translate to the University losing control over its information resources?

Originally Posted by madquarker

This is just rabble rousing. We ALREADY rely on others to manage our information and systems to a large degree.

As far as I know, no, we don't. Everything is managed in-house by McMaster University and associated staff.

ELM software is licensed by Blackboard, but the system used on campus is managed by UTM, a University department.

How does using Google apps translate to the University losing control over its information resources?

We would effectively be giving our information and control over said information to Google. It would be on their servers, in their buildings on their land. It would raise a lot of potential legal issues, especially if for one reason or another there happened to be conflict between Google and the University.

I remain cautious and suggest everyone look at this idea carefully and critically (not that I see there being a chance that this would actually ever happen).

dont really use muss anyway... ive set up my hotmail to receive and send from my muss account along with my original hotmail account

From my understanding, ELM is the result of UTS trying to emulate Blackboard after the company pulled out of McMaster, and badly so.

Also Taunton, your conspiracy theories about the control of information are getting asinine. Reading your comments one would be inclined to believe that in 2012, the doomsday conspiracy will come when Google eradicates the sun using all the information they store.

Google is a business, and as such it will do things of most benefit its share prices. Google is not going to suddenly screw over their clients because that would cause a HUGE drop in terms of its share price. Case in points: Lehman Brothers, and Merrill Lynch, both of which have been bought out and reorganized to eliminate the liabilites

In the age of the internet, collaborative management of information is the easiest and best thing to do since there are so many stakeholders that improprieties on the part of one are immediately jumped upon by others. Furthermore, all the bad press Google has received lately is a lot of BS. People are crying foul about security issues because Chinese hackers used vulnerabilities in Adobe products to launch an attack against Google.

Plain and simple, the attack was unsuccessful. It will also likely have the effect of shocking Google into developing a much more stringent security system to protect against these attacks. In short, if you are working on a Software Engineering degree with a focus on security, Google is likely to have some employment opportunity for you.