Originally Posted by Bernard

Lol ok buddy, relax. Waaaay too much pessimism in one post. Looking at all those comments about things being "relative" and "you're not allowed to say that because you haven't experienced everything yet", seems like no one would be allowed to have an opinion.

I think the OP was just trying to give us his opinion on why he thinks mac is amazing

No your putting words in my mouth. Where did I say you're not allowed to say that? I am simply disagreeing with his opinion and pointing out that I think most of his points are based of pretenses, rather than actual fact.

He is entitled to his opinion as I am to mine.

Originally Posted by Leventio

6. Have you attended all universities in Ontario?
7. Based off of?
11. Relative.
18. Based off of?
19. Have you used all public transportation systems in Canada to know this?
26. Relative.

Out of that entire list, there were really only four things that weren't relative or could be made moot.

Seems more like you're shooting his opinions down, rather than giving us your own.

I am simply disagreeing with his opinion and pointing out that I think most of his points are based of pretenses, rather than actual fact.

Isn't that what an opinion is? You have a view based on the information that you know, which may not necessarily be based on facts.

Honestly, if the school is this bad, why not just transfer? It's really not that difficult. If you really, really don't like it here, then what's the point of staying and complaining about it?

"If you don't like it, you can leave!" huh?

Originally Posted by Twelve Chars

"If you don't like it, you can leave!" huh?

It's not that as much as that as it is, "You can leave if you find it so intolerable that you just have to complain. If you find that there's better quality elsewhere and you're entitled to it, then why not just go there to take it? Wouldn't that be the best for you?"

Originally Posted by justinsftw

It's not that as much as that as it is, "You can leave if you find it so intolerable that you just have to complain. If you find that there's better quality elsewhere and you're entitled to it, then why not just go there to take it? Wouldn't that be the best for you?"

Exactly what I was getting at. Also, there are Prospective Students on this forum that are coming into McMaster that are easily influenced. By going on and on about how bad you think this school is, are you not making them question their choices, thus possibly making them more nervous? By highlighting the obvious pros of the university, it's giving them a welcoming feeling into the university. Personally, if I were coming into Mac, I would much prefer comments like "the campus is beautiful" and what not as compared to "no, no, no this school is absolute garbage and you all have the false illusion of it being good." I understand everyone has their opinions, but with the negative sides of the argument coming out, the question of why you chose Mac/why you are still here resonates.

If I could transfer tomorrow to any school of my choice, guaranteed that all my credits would transfer so that I would be no further away from graduating, then yes, I probably would. Do you feel that you are happier here than you would be if you were at any other school in the world?

It's probably not the case that out of the hundreds of schools you could've been at, you just happened to pick the one that was absolutely best for you. It's more like, you picked a decent school where you're having an okay time so you've grown fond of it and you feel you owe it allegiance. Now I'm biased because I've never been for school pride, or patriotic pride, or hometown pride, or any sort of pride where you're taking it from something that is not the product of your own hands and mind, but I don't feel that I owe this school any such loyalty. I mean, do you still go around telling people how great your highschool is?

Most of the TAs I've had over the years here did their undergraduate degrees somewhere else. I've never really heard any of them going on about how their old school was DA BEST, but I'm sure most of them liked it to some degree. You guys seem to be operating at a binary level here where someone must either love McMaster or hate it. Read my post, read Leventio's post, do we really seem like we're exploding with hate? It's not so much pessimism or cynicism as it is skepticism.

There are good things and bad things about this school like any other. So when I say that I think McMaster isn't the best school in the world, both generally and for myself personally, don't look at me like I'm Judas ****ing Iscariot.

Originally Posted by J. Dorey

Exactly what I was getting at. Also, there are Prospective Students on this forum that are coming into McMaster that are easily influenced. By going on and on about how bad you think this school is, are you not making them question their choices, thus possibly making them more nervous? By highlighting the obvious pros of the university, it's giving them a welcoming feeling into the university. Personally, if I were coming into Mac, I would much prefer comments like "the campus is beautiful" and what not as compared to "no, no, no this school is absolute garbage and you all have the false illusion of it being good." I understand everyone has their opinions, but with the negative sides of the argument coming out, the question of why you chose Mac/why you are still here resonates.

Better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

Originally Posted by Twelve Chars

If I could transfer tomorrow to any school of my choice, guaranteed that all my credits would transfer so that I would be no further away from graduating, then yes, I probably would. Do you feel that you are happier here than you would be if you were at any other school in the world?

It's probably not the case that out of the hundreds of schools you could've been at, you just happened to pick the one that was absolutely best for you. It's more like, you picked a decent school where you're having an okay time so you've grown fond of it and you feel you owe it allegiance. Now I'm biased because I've never been for school pride, or patriotic pride, or hometown pride, or any sort of pride where you're taking it from something that is not the product of your own hands and mind, but I don't feel that I owe this school any such loyalty. I mean, do you still go around telling people how great your highschool is?

Most of the TAs I've had over the years here did their undergraduate degrees somewhere else. I've never really heard any of them going on about how their old school was DA BEST, but I'm sure most of them liked it to some degree. You guys seem to be operating at a binary level here where someone must either love McMaster or hate it. Read my post, read Leventio's post, do we really seem like we're exploding with hate? It's not so much pessimism or cynicism as it is skepticism.

There are good things and bad things about this school like any other. So when I say that I think McMaster isn't the best school in the world, both generally and for myself personally, don't look at me like I'm Judas ****ing Iscariot.

1. Yes, that's why I chose McMaster. I had an abundance of options after high school, and I researched my *** off and came to the conclusion that I would be much, much happier at McMaster than any other school.
2. No, I don't still go around telling people how awesome my high school is. If people ask, I am going to tell them the good things about it though.
3. Relax, I did not just direct that at you. There's earlier posts that are saying that we are building up this sense of pride and that we actually don't feel this way.
All I'm saying is that, even for the sake of incoming first years, at least make their transition period a little bit easier by stating what is nice about the university, which is what the original post was supposed to be getting at.

1. It is, but how is this a plus for Mac and a negative elsewhere?

I don't know how having a great athletic facility isn't a plus...

2. Based off of?

http://realacademicplanning. wordpr...ty-9-may-2011/

you are correct in questioning this, I guess i'm just easy EDIT: I can't edit the original post anymore sorry

3. As does Queen's, Western, UofT, etc.

ya and they are good schools, so mac is on par with them...

4. It is, but how is this a plus for Mac and a negative elsewhere?

a nice building = plus, never said anything about a negative elsewhere, doesn't make it any less of a plus.

6. Have you attended all universities in Ontario?

no but I hear complaints of this at other schools and I haven't heard that once at Mac

7. Based off of?

renovated last year, I find the food quality far better than typical cafeteria food, prices aren't THAT crazy

9. As does every other university in Ontario

Not necessarily

11. Relative.

10 minutes from res to ETB for a school our size I'd say is quite manageable compared to many other schools.

12. Queen's has Lake Ontario, UBC has University Lands and the Pacific Ocean, every university has something, whats makes Cootes better?

this wasn't even the argument I think you're totally missing the point. And a lot of schools dont have the wilderness right on campus.

13. Which campus does?

waterloo

14. It is, but how is this a plus for Mac and a negative elsewhere?

How is it not a plus for mac? Jane and Finch is a pretty big negative but that's not really the point.

15. UOIT, York, Ryerson, OCAD, UTSG, UTM, UTSC, University of Guelph-Humber are in the GTA too.

good for them don't see how this nullifies it for McMaster

16. Mac has a large douchebag identity, and like most douchebag identities, we're completely oblivious to it. "LOOLLLL ATLEAST WERE NOT FROM QUEENS!" is pretty douchebag thing to say (which is commonly heard around Mac).

That's true, however we don't have a reputation for preppy party animals.

17. Can you think of any program that is really bad anywhere in Canada?

unaccredited engineering programs, general arts at quelph, communication at laurier, you get the point.

18. Based off of?

peoples opinions, size and interest in life sci and eng program, rankings, facilities, admission averages.

19. Have you used all public transportation systems in Canada to know this?

wow you are just being a dick for the hell of it. how is $140 for 8 months not cheap?

20. Ok no. Read above about tuition.

compare it to other Ontario schools and its not as ridiculous as Waterloo or U of T or Queens

21. Relative. Some people prefer online education tools.

You think if you asked 10 random Mac students if they would rather have a lab or tutorial online more than 1 or 2 would say yes?

22. First off, McMaster doesn't have access to GO Train, we have access to a GO bus. At least 8 other universities have access to a GO bus. And which university doesn't have access to local transit or a highway.

wow sorry a 10 minute direct connection the go train. Well if you consider a school like York the public transit to get there is horrible if you ask anyone, and U of T and ryerson doesn't have direct access to a highway thats a couple blocks away.

23. Wind Home Zone across the GTA, Vancouver, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Alberta and Kitchener-Waterloo this fall. How is this a bonus for Mac.

well kitchener-waterloo is an unconfirmed rumour, Alberta made me lol, and what about the schools that aren't in one?

24. Arguable as pointed out earlier.

true I'll put an asterisk next to it EDIT: again, I can't edit it anymore sorry

25. No one looks down on a university degree thats not from a degree mill. The only looking people do is up... and thats for Harvard.

well this is just a difference of opinion we can't prove or disprove our beliefs

26. Relative.

ya, to other shitty websites...

27. Looking at the NOT OFFERED courses in the undergrad calendar, I beg to differ.

thats not the point I was trying to make I mean it has such valuable information for degree requirements and courses that are easy to read and understand IMO.

"Out of that entire list, there were really only four things that weren't relative or could be made moot. Seriously McMaster is alright, but people should really try to make that claim off of its merits as opposed to "what that university doesn't have""

Wow that's exactly what was being done, claiming merits, you are the one saying "how is this a negative somewhere else" aka what universities have and don't have. You just encapsulated the pessimistic Mcmaster ideology that I was trying to illustrate thanks

Originally Posted by Twelve Chars

There are good things and bad things about this school like any other. So when I say that I think McMaster isn't the best school in the world, both generally and for myself personally, don't look at me like I'm Judas ****ing Iscariot.

no one is or did... wtf calm down

bullet point posts are for people too lazy to make paragraphs!

Originally Posted by Bernard

Seems more like you're shooting his opinions down, rather than giving us your own.



Isn't that what an opinion is? You have a view based on the information that you know, which may not necessarily be based on facts.

Seems to me that you don't understand that opinions are subjective beliefs based off other opposing opinions. My opinion was that his list was built off of relativity and biased belief. I don't really think I presented any actual information in my list, but if I did, I encourage you to create an discussion against it. It can be argued after all that differing opinions is the driving force of human knowledge (to paraphrase John Stuart Mill).

You seemed to have missed the last sentence of my first post which was:

Originally Posted by Leventio

Seriously McMaster is alright, but people should really try to make that claim off of its merits as opposed to "what that university doesn't have".

I was in no way attacking the credibility of this school, and I do enjoy my time here. I was however pointing out that a university's greatness should not be measured by what other schools lack, but rather its own merits (particularly in terms of efficient transportation). That was why I left certain parts out of that list, including the nuclear reactor, which most certainly is a merit towards Mac. In fact, that reactor seemingly provides half of Canada's iodine-125. That I say is something to boast about.

And furthermore, the majority of my post was actually defending certain rankings which rank McMaster in the top 100 as opposed to the QS ranking which I found was flawed (163 for QS, 93 in the Times and 88 in ARWU).

EDIT: To the OP, I probably should have toned down on the perceived harshness of my list, but I do appreciate you responding to it as opposed to just attacking the integrity of my post. For instance, point 27 seems to be a misunderstanding on my part.

Originally Posted by Leventio

I was in no way attacking the credibility of this school, and I do enjoy my time here. I was however pointing out that a university's greatness should not be measured by what other schools lack, but rather its own merits (particularly in terms of efficient transportation). That was why I left certain parts out of that list, including the nuclear reactor, which most certainly is a merit towards Mac. In fact, that reactor seemingly provides half of Canada's iodine-125. That I say is something to boast about.

I think it should be noted that it may be easier to demonstrate schools merits by comparing them to other schools, correct? For example, the feeling of "home" here in a smaller, more community based campus as opposed to U of T that is spread out all across Toronto. I do agree that it is better to show off what the school has (e.g. nuclear reactor) as opposed to what other schools don't have, but I think that comparisons are sometimes the best you can do.

Originally Posted by Twelve Chars

bullet point posts are for people too lazy to make paragraphs!

I'm doing a Double Major in CSCT/English. I think that laziness in formulating paragraphs is out of the question at this point.