As a student or alumni, what are your thoughts on the LRT project to connect McMaster to downtown Hamilton? Comment below.



Here is a rendering of LRT in front of McMaster. It goes on it's own separate lane in the middle of the road. There are two tracks, one goes east the other goes west.

They can't integrate the stops nicely on most of the proposed routes. In downtown this will result in even slower car traffic than it already is.

Also didn't European cities already prove that trams only make things worse in areas with high population density? They are generally slower than buses, and if there's an issue they will cause more damage than lets say a bus.

Why bother? The city can instead give the money to McMaster, so the leaking sink in the mens bathroom on the 2nd floor of ITB finally gets fixed. I mean for fuck's sake, it's been 5 years and the best they could do is put a plastic sheet over it. I can't believe my tuition can't pay for a plumber.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

They can't integrate the stops nicely on most of the proposed routes. In downtown this will result in even slower car traffic than it already is.

Citation please: the traffic engineers involved on this project would be bothered by this claim.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

Also didn't European cities already prove that trams only make things worse in areas with high population density? They are generally slower than buses, and if there's an issue they will cause more damage than lets say a bus.

1. Citation please. 2. A bus is bound by traffic flow, which is only increasing, and will be a massive bottleneck in 8-10 years when the LRT would be coming online. 3. More damage than a bus?

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

Why bother? The city can instead give the money to McMaster, so the leaking sink in the mens bathroom on the 2nd floor of ITB finally gets fixed. I mean for fuck's sake, it's been 5 years and the best they could do is put a plastic sheet over it. I can't believe my tuition can't pay for a plumber.

It's provincial money, to pay for developing transportation infrastructure in the GTHA region; sadly, too many people think along the same lines as this statement, including all the city councilors that think the $1B for LRT can just be spent where ever they want, if they shut down the project...

Citation please: the traffic engineers involved on this project would be bothered by this claim.

Most tram stops look like this:


Especially when the tram lines are contracted on top of existing infrastructure, there's no other way than to put the tram lines in the middle of the street, so when a tram stops the traffic halts while passengers are getting in/off the tram. It's inefficient, not to mention it takes away a few lanes that could otherwise be used by traffic.

A bus is bound by traffic flow, which is only increasing, and will be a massive bottleneck in 8-10 years when the LRT would be coming online.

So is the tram. Unless it's has elevated rail, which is clearly not the case here.

Also tram will increase the level of noise (I lived near tram lines). A gentle noise of a gas powered bus engine will be replaced by a 62 ton steel monstrosity that will make the houses around it shake. Why? Well because the city needs to spend 1 billion somehow....

I think the initial drawings show that the LRT will be in the right lanes -- this would skip the cars passing issue that exists in toronto streetcars (which definitely does slow down traffic).

And as for more damage or congestion than a bus. This is partially true. Mostly because anything that is on a track means that once one tram is stuck, no other trams can pass by, effectively closing down the transit route in front of it. This also happens downtown Toronto, but pretty infrequently.

Importantly, lessons have likely been learned from 50 years of street cars and LRTs around the world to make the project a better version of what you see elsewhere.

The picture (?Citation?) you've shown is a TTC stop, with a rail system that was built decades ago. In fact, the rail cars are being changed out now -- so Toronto's system is as old or older than the lifetime of a streetcar. As soreal pointed out: traffic engineers and city planners have learned lots, and that is reflected in the actual LRT plan.

As for vehicular traffic: I don't understand why everyone refuses to acknowledge growth... The city councilors who live on the mountain do this too. In 8-10 years, without moving the city beyond buses and cars, it won't be "a gentle noise of a gas powered bus engine"; it will be a constant vibration of gridlock, or else the city's growth (social and economic) will be subdued by an excess of traffic. Further to this:

Originally Posted by mike_302

A bus is bound by traffic flow, which is only increasing, and will be a massive bottleneck in 8-10 years when the LRT would be coming online.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

So is the tram. Unless it's has elevated rail, which is clearly not the case here.

"Fact: LRT will run on dedicated lanes with signal priority. That means the streetlights will automatically turn green for the LRT vehicle as it approaches an intersection." -- HamiltonLightRail.ca, and also the LRT functional analysis report...

LRT is for our future. It's a project that the forward looking people are looking at and saying, "what will be the benefit when the doors open for the first time, sometime after 2020?". It's also a project that the mountain-councilors are looking at and saying, "But I drove my car in that right-hand lane today to get to work! What will I do if this train comes along!?"

"Fact: LRT will run on dedicated lanes with signal priority. That means the streetlights will automatically turn green for the LRT vehicle as it approaches an intersection." -- HamiltonLightRail.ca, and also the LRT functional analysis report...

Right, except being stopped at red light is not a traffic jam.

If there's a collision on the tracks, or if there are cars in front of it for whatever reason, the tram is stuck. That's it.

LRT is for our future. It's a project that the forward looking people are looking at and saying, "what will be the benefit when the doors open for the first time, sometime after 2020?". It's also a project that the mountain-councilors are looking at and saying, "But I drove my car in that right-hand lane today to get to work! What will I do if this train comes along!?"

Our future is rent control, so people can actually afford to live where they do now instead of facing ever increasing rent due to increasing land price.

Hamilton hasn't even hit a million people of population mark. LRT is irrelevant at this point, there are better ways to spend the money.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

If there's a collision on the tracks, or if there are cars in front of it for whatever reason, the tram is stuck. That's it.

... Okay. Yes, if a car decides to ignore the rules of the road, then the LRT system is bungled up a bit. I think you, and maybe one or two other people are legitimately concerned that this will be a huge problem...

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

Our future is rent control, so people can actually afford to live where they do now instead of facing ever increasing rent due to increasing land price.

I don't see how this connects to the LRT. The cost of living is a challenge: Yes. That's not affected by LRT one way or another -- at least not directly or enormously.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucas

Hamilton hasn't even hit a million people of population mark. LRT is irrelevant at this point, there are better ways to spend the money.

Another -- shall we say "unique"? -- logical deduction... Justifying transit is not about the city's population; but if you want to make that link, it's not about the city's population TODAY. Transit is about the amount of people moving through a region. If you would just look up the LRT plan and give it a read yourself, then I wouldn't have to point these things... The ridership of the B-Line alone, in 2010, was cited as sufficient motivation for LRT along the B-line route. There are a tonne of other facts in the engineering reports commissioned for evaluating this project, which would save us a lot of time if you just read... Go ahead. I'll respond when I feel like it has been given enough attention.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Citation please: the traffic engineers involved on this project would be bothered by this claim.



1. Citation please. 2. A bus is bound by traffic flow, which is only increasing, and will be a massive bottleneck in 8-10 years when the LRT would be coming online. 3. More damage than a bus?



It's provincial money, to pay for developing transportation infrastructure in the GTHA region; sadly, too many people think along the same lines as this statement, including all the city councilors that think the $1B for LRT can just be spent where ever they want, if they shut down the project...

Wynne has gone on record saying that the the $1Billion can be used for other transportation modes such as BRT. It isn't LRT or nothing.

IMO the LRT should be implemented on the A line not the B line. Population growth is occurring on the mountain not the already developed East End. We want people from the suburbs going downtown. People in the east end can easily get downtown using existing transit.

The roads in the east end were built to accommodate thousands of more vehicles that they are handling today. Days when Stelco and Dofasco employed over 20,000 people. Today roads like Burlington street are underutilized. Traffic congestion isn't an issue going East to West.

The other issue is the B line is the HSR's most profitable line. The LRT will be operated by metrolinx and they will keep the profits (if any). The B line will be no more. That leaves the HSR with the loss of its most profitable route. Tax payers will have to subsidize the HSR to a greater degree.

I'm also uneasy as to what will be found underground and how far this $1 billion will go. Metrolinx says they will replace like for like but a lot of things underground will need upgrading and will come on the city's dime.

If the project does go ahead I really hope additional funding comes soon for the extension to Eastgate and then the new Confederation Go Station. As it stands now, stopping at the Queenston traffic circle isn't an ideal terminus. Centennial parkway would be better.