I'm not prepared to release all details of my project, but here's some of the things I've been doing so far:

- I've been having meetings with Administration in the Faculty of Science, including the Associate Dean, the Dean and Members of Faculty. These meetings have been focussing primarily on the new iSci program. I've been trying to get an understanding of exactly how the program works, who the new incoming students are (people I represent).

- I'm assisting the iSci program with policy writing because they are working on forming a sub-society as well as applying for MSU club status

-I've been having regular meetings with the President of the McMaster Science Society. We've been talking about iSci, as well as Welcome Week, and my caucus' involvement in Welcome Week. I'm also working on a light training presentation of Robert's Rules of Order because the MSS wants to start using them, and has asked me to help.

-I'm researching grading systems, because one of my colleagues (a member of my caucus, as well as a member of the UA committee with me) and I are working on reviewing McMaster's grading system. This is a large project and we're just in the early stages of it.

-Along the same lines as the previous point, I'm personally working on researching a pass-fail first year. I don't have a ton of details yet, but this is another year-long project for me, and come September, I plan on talking directly to students to get their opinions.

This is just for the summer, and I'm looking forward to the new school year to begin even more direct work as an SRA member.

As for your comment on commitment: I need to work part-time during the school year in order to pay my rent and buy food. Therefore, for me, it has to go 1)School, 2) Work, 3)Extra-curriculars (with personal stuff thrown in there as well).

I wouldn't have run for a seat if I didn't think I could keep my commitment. So, even though I have to work during the school year, I'm fully planning and expecting to fit everything together, and I highly doubt that working part-time will actually interfere with my work as an SRA member.

All right, keep on that track and prove me wrong, but do stop acting like the SRA is a faction of the GOP and needs to attack all dissenters for misunderstanding the work you do.

Ben, I think one of the points I was mentioning the other day was to do with transperancy.

You just wrote that you are working on the Grading system as one of the compulsory projects as a Committee member I presume, however none of us know about it, infact chances are if you are planning on altering our grading system or writing a policy on recommendations for it. A good place to start would have been Insiders: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthread.php?t=2178 8&
This issue was clearly discussed in detail on Insiders. Similarly I personally did some research into it and if I recall correctly the grading system was changed last in 1990's I think and an enquiry from the registrars office told me(off the record) that the University has NO plans to change the system in the near future. It was also proven/theorized that all grading systems have their pros' and con's and the 12 point system at first appears to be "unfair", but it is quite simply because it is much more linear and accurate then a 4 point system. However in the long run for graduate school applications through the conversions things even out. How do I know all this? I took time out to engage students on the much derided Insiders and got their opinion and most importantly knowledge on it. That is what I meant the other day when I mentioned how effective a tool it is for student opinions. But whatever your current status on the project is, I would recommend doing some ground work right now so come September you have something constructive to hand over to your partners; but more importantly letting everyone know what you are doing because they have every right to know. Off the record I have been told by senior MSU leaders that quite possibly the main reason why goals in committees don't get completed is that people wait till the school year starts to divide up the topic and then with academics/extra curriculars people run out of time, like Rohan said there are alot of ambitious projects by every committee every year but around 25% of them actually get done!(Another off the record statistic)

Good luck!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Ben, I think one of the points I was mentioning the other day was to do with transperancy.

You just wrote that you are working on the Grading system as one of the compulsory projects as a Committee member I presume, however none of us know about it, infact chances are if you are planning on altering our grading system or writing a policy on recommendations for it. A good place to start would have been Insiders: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthread.php?t=2178 8&
This issue was clearly discussed in detail on Insiders. Similarly I personally did some research into it and if I recall correctly the grading system was changed last in 1990's I think and an enquiry from the registrars office told me(off the record) that the University has NO plans to change the system in the near future. It was also proven/theorized that all grading systems have their pros' and con's and the 12 point system at first appears to be "unfair", but it is quite simply because it is much more linear and accurate then a 4 point system. However in the long run for graduate school applications through the conversions things even out. How do I know all this? I took time out to engage students on the much derided Insiders and got their opinion and most importantly knowledge on it. That is what I meant the other day when I mentioned how effective a tool it is for student opinions. But whatever your current status on the project is, I would recommend doing some ground work right now so come September you have something constructive to hand over to your partners; but more importantly letting everyone know what you are doing because they have every right to know. Off the record I have been told by senior MSU leaders that quite possibly the main reason why goals in committees don't get completed is that people wait till the school year starts to divide up the topic and then with academics/extra curriculars people run out of time, like Rohan said there are alot of ambitious projects by every committee every year but around 25% of them actually get done!(Another off the record statistic)

Good luck!

This project is actually the brainchild of one of my colleagues/caucus members, and it stems from my original project of looking into a pass/fail first year. It's not compulsory by any means.

I'm not sure if you intend to come off like you're talking down to me, but looks like it to me, and I don't appreciate it. I've been working on this for months, and student opinion should be the second step, because otherwise, I'd have no alternatives to present. I've been talking to people about the grading system since my second year (I'm going into fourth), and the general consensus, at least in science, has been that they would appreciate it if someone would at least look into it.

The Registrar might have told you that they have no plans on changing the grading system, but that means nothing. If the MSU presents a policy and begins to lobby the Administration, changes are always possible.

Also, this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, so if you want to discuss with me more, them PM me or email me. I'm not planning on starting discussion on here about this until after I've finished my inital research with some alternatives.

Originally Posted by Taunton

This project is actually the brainchild of one of my colleagues/caucus members, and it stems from my original project of looking into a pass/fail first year. It's not compulsory by any means.

I'm not sure if you intend to come off like you're talking down to me, but looks like it to me, and I don't appreciate it. I've been working on this for months, and student opinion should be the second step, because otherwise, I'd have no alternatives to present. I've been talking to people about the grading system since my second year (I'm going into fourth), and the general consensus, at least in science, has been that they would appreciate it if someone would at least look into it.

The Registrar might have told you that they have no plans on changing the grading system, but that means nothing. If the MSU presents a policy and begins to lobby the Administration, changes are always possible.

Also, this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, so if you want to discuss with me more, them PM me or email me. I'm not planning on starting discussion on here about this until after I've finished my inital research with some alternatives.

There in lies your problem with people on this forum, it goes with the earlier statement of all of us being some sort of "clique" but I have NO idea why you are assuming I "appear" to be talking down to you. I was just giving a suggestion as to where you can find additional student input ready made for you purposes, and was trying to prove a point that we can come up with something constructive on this forum as well!

But then again I have a completely different philosophy and I often fail to recognize that people work differently. I believe in student input in all three stages of any project, before I start it; during the Project and after it has been done. I have done so wherever I have been able to(dependant on the nature of the projects ofcourse); that is why I mentioned that starting out in the summer where students are free and paying attention to websites like Insiders is a useful idea compared to waiting till September. And secondly I wasn't saying that the Registars word is final,if we were to assume that then all of our operating policeis would be redundant, I was merely providing you with addtional information I had by chance; It might help you in the near future.

As I mentioned before it is all about perspective, if you continue assuming that everyone is out to get you rather then trying to help you, it wouldn't really serve any constructive purpose!

If you guys want to talk about this more, and discuss Ben's plans, we can move this topic into the SRA Connection forum.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

I have NO idea why you are assuming I "appear" to be talking down to you.

I'm not assuming anything. The language you choose to use "sounds" (I know we're reading, but you know what I mean) like you're talking down to people. You use this language all the time in your posts as a matter of fact.

How about this: you pay closer attention to how you say things, and I'll work on not acting like I think everyone's out to get me? Sound good?

Something interesting you might like to know:

90% of the message is lost in, forum posts, instant message etc. The 10% remaining is the words, the other 90% of the message is the vocal intonation and body language. It's very easy to misinterpret what someone is trying to say on this type of medium.

EDIT: that's good with me, Chad. Please send me a link to the new thread so I can find it quickly. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Chad

If you guys want to talk about this more, and discuss Ben's plans, we can move this topic into the SRA Connection forum.

Oh well I completely apologize, I was merely trying to show that contrary to what originally was said about the 1280 thread by some people, the forum can produce piles of constructive information and student input. We just have to look at it from a diffferent angle. Hence I linked the 12 point thread and paraphrased all that I had learnt "just" from reading and participating in it! But then I got slightly de-railed as usual.

@Ben: Will do!

haha, no problem Huzaifa. And you're absolutely right about utilizing the forum. Discussion boards are great for getting preliminary opinions and feedback throughout from planning to implementation. If the resource is available, why not use it?

For more discussion on SRA matters that aren't 1280-related, you can post in the General Forum, or if you're an SRA member looking to make an announcement, post in the SRA Connection forum. Both are accessible via the FORUMS dropdown in the top menu.

Well done Chad for pointing out the MSU's latest hypocrisy. They'll promise to consult students, then they'll just go and do whatever they want while students are away over the summer. In MSU Speak, students complain when they disagree with the MSU and give constructive feedback when they agree with their political masters.

However, I do have one major bone to pick with this topic: it proves I was right all along on the issue of the MSU's ability to misdirect student outrage. Are students demanding to know how this "jack of all trades 1280 study space / restolunge / club / holy meca of the MSU" will run as a business? Are they outraged that by the MSU's own published budget data (which apparently no one takes the time to number crunch) they've budgeted for 1280 to run in the red? Students need to stop complaining about the poorly handled name game / logo and start demanding more information regarding the poor handling of the renovation timeline / budget and the serious lack of any real plan as to what 1280 will be and how it will function, compete and turn a profit. I still haven't seen a single answer to my repeated question; "What is 1280's inimitable advantage and how will that lead to business success?" No offence to multimedia students, but there's more to Brand Management than a name and logo.

"Off the record I have been told by senior MSU leaders that quite possibly the main reason why goals in committees don't get completed is that people wait till the school year starts to divide up the topic and then with academics/extra curriculars people run out of time, like Rohan said there are alot of ambitious projects by every committee every year but around 25% of them actually get done!(Another off the record statistic)" - Huzaifa Saeed

The MSU's inability to get anything productive done at the committee level has more to do with the culture of the SRA than the amount of time they have. The IRC ONLY runs their various sub-committees during the school year (from late Sept to mid December and from January to late March - they don't hold meetings during exams) and in those 6 months the IRC's subcommittees often achieve most of their goals. The IRC Budget Committee drafts the next academic year's IRC Budget in public and is finished by November. They then critique Housing's budget by the end of February. The IRC regularly has their budget, fees, and their official opinion on Res Fees and Housing's budget to the University Fees Committee before the MSU has even calculated their rather arbitrary CPI fee increase. (I know this because I also represented all Undergrads on the University Fees Committee). Over the summer the IRC meets at a relatively inexpensive summer camp where, along with some team building exercises, they hold intensive training and hold official meetings. The SRA's summer is spent at Bark Lake, where they... hold "meetings" while enjoying "refreshing beverages."
(http://www.barklake.com/pricing_general.html) When the expense accounts of British MPs became public, the people were rightly outraged.

"To that end, the Executive Board (EB) is given the responsibility to act in the stead of the SRA for the summer months. Traditionally, this wouldn't be much of a problem... just things like wage reviews for employees, and other minutea." - Ben Taunton

I love this simply because it reminds me of how last summer the MSU execs used the summer to give themselves a 22.4% raise which sent them from being among the best paid student leaders in Canada, to being clearly the highest paid student leaders in Canada. If Dr. George can be the highest paid, why shouldn't the MSU be the highest paid? And, if we're going to use that logic, why shouldn't the MSU execs ask the Governor General for an Order of Canada while they're at it?

I have to say that my favourite part of this post was that Ian Finlay (last year's MSU VP Finance) said thanks to Chad for his post. Ian was part of an equally closed off administration which is just as at fault, if not more so, for the 1280 fiasco as the current execs are. Last year's administration twiddled their thumbs over the issue of planning the Quarters reno, ran an empty name game debate, and after squandering much time and effort they ended up quickly cutting a large cheque so that this current administration could blindly throw money at the problem. If anything, it's business as usual. It wouldn't be the MSU if executives didn't blame their predecessors, and in some cases their successors, for everything that went wrong.

- Alex McColl
Hons B.Comm 08
IRC VP Finance 07/08
Undergraduate - University Fees Committee 07/08

I would just like to offer up some much need criticisms. It is impossible to keep everyone happy, and the Board of Directors has the responsibility of making decisions that will inevitably make someone upset. They lean towards to SRA to consult students and ask them for their input. So here's the true issue: Student Representative Assembly members need to be doing more to make contact with their students. It's not enough to just ask a few friends, but there must be mass communication between faculty societies and their SRA members. There must also be contact made between faculty societies and the actual students within said faculty.

Because of numerous deadlines and scheduled meeting times, it is often near impossible to allow for adequate representation and consultation when decisions must be made on the fly.

Some things that all undergraduates should be pressing for:
More updates from your faculty societies.
More contact between faculty societies and their respective SRA members.
More updates on the MSU website.
Less beaureaucries within the MSU.

I have been told by many people that the SRA and MSU at large is a giant clique that is closed off to the average student... This is false. If you genuinely want to be informed, email your SRA reps. They will be more than happy to answer any questions or field any sort of criticisms.

The "1280 fiasco" is only an issue if everyone continues pressing in a negative fashion. If you want a better logo; say so. If you want to know about renovations; say so. If you want any information about anything at all; say so.

BUT DO IT ON THE MSU WEBSITE. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS DO NOT READ MACINSIDERS, NOR DO THEY TRY AND CONTACT PEOPLE FROM THESE THREADS. BY USING THE MSU WEBSITE, YOU WILL SEE RESULTS FASTER AND MORE ACCURATELY.

Alex, you touch on some point, but in classic style these are fluffed up with various anecdotes about how great you are, and the IRC you ran was.

You are right in saying that the problem with the committees is the SRA culture. However, the problem doesn't really have to do with Bark Lake, as that isn't exactly a good gauge of the culture of the SRA.

What DOES happen within the SRA is that people enter the year with high ambitions, and it carries around till September. Bark Lake is a fun time simply because people are still riding the high that accompanies starting something new and rewarding. (In perception..)

When September hits, all those ambitions are immediately put below other priorities: school, work, friendships, clubs, campaigning for future MSU positions etc. The SRA becomes more apathetic (all the while blaming student apathy) and nothing useful gets done.

Committees dry up, and people start finding new excuses to not do projects they had in mind at the time they wrote their year plans. Sometimes people do manage to draft up the policies that they wanted to work on, but the rest of their committees are so bored that they do not care about what is going on.

These things then go to the SRA level, where the loudmouths in the Assembly do not hesitate to spend hours reciting soliloquies about said projects, and 5 hours later they end up sending it back to committee level for editing, thus beginning the cycle again.

---

Again, if I had a wand and could make things perfect, the SRA would utilize its committees to do the heavy debate. People would show up, regardless of whether they are on the committee or not, and use that informal setting to voice their complaints until the piece of draft policy is to their expectations.

The point of the SRA meetings would be to set the directions of the policies before they are started at committee level, and to approve the policy at the end of the process.

This could drastically cut down the time spent at the table on those Sundays.