Originally Posted by huzaifa47

haha no you won't Think about it for a few minutes.

But this is most probably a political debate. I'm sort of left wing-utilitarian andd you appear to be right wing soo there is no possibility of consensus!

Edit: Plus secondly technically/Legally people do Consent to pay all that! When you sign your payment agreement you are signing off to something even if it is compulsory! :S

Good point, good point.. it seems like everyone is fine with the $100 fee.. In the larger picture, yes its a good deal, but when when it comes down to counting every dollar, $100 is a lot in my opinion at least, I guess it really depends on how everyone looks at it.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

haha no you won't Think about it for a few minutes.

But this is most probably a political debate. I'm sort of left wing-utilitarian andd you appear to be right wing soo there is no possibility of consensus!

Edit: Plus secondly technically/Legally people do Consent to pay all that! When you sign your payment agreement you are signing off to something even if it is compulsory! :S

You always seem to be classifying things.
People can differ on their political compass but still agree on things. It's just so... -bangs head-

Me and Taunton agree on PLENTY of things!

Originally Posted by lawleypop

You always seem to be classifying things.
People can differ on their political compass but still agree on things. It's just so... -bangs head-

Me and Taunton agree on PLENTY of things!

Lol no I classified this as such because it was a debate about political government spending; started out at MSU level which is a microcosm of the national government andd then with the unemployment comment it went to Federal Government level. Its prettyy political! I dunno if you really have steadfast political views like I do towards a certain side you will ALWAYS think with a certain angle! I.e: I'll always suggest Socialist things! :S

P.s: You and Taunton are more alike then you both think you are!

not to be mean, but really, the supplementary fees are posted online and can be checked before you enrol at Mac. you had knowledge of them, consented to the payment agreement and with it all fees associated.

a debate on whether or not the bus pass is neccesary, or an optout is good, is a valid discussion. but it isnt theft, and there is a chance for students to not consent to pay.

Originally Posted by stevennevets

not to be mean, but really, the supplementary fees are posted online and can be checked before you enrol at Mac. you had knowledge of them, consented to the payment agreement and with it all fees associated.

a debate on whether or not the bus pass is neccesary, or an optout is good, is a valid discussion. but it isnt theft, and there is a chance for students to not consent to pay.

I'd say most universities offer the same things in terms of supplementary fees and to not go to a school which has an amazing reputation for your program because you don't like one fee is silly.

If I was in one of the med programs (health sci is it?), I wouldn't not go here just b/c of some silly fee.

But, people should be given the option to opt out of most of the fees if those fees don't benefit the greater good. Imagine if people weren't allowed to opt out of the medical insurance. My dad pays his fees or whatever so that I can be
covered through his work. It's silly for me to pay insurance at mac too.

If 100 people opting out of the HSR fee would impact 15k students, I don't think it should be an option. (note: just throwing out random numbers here).

Do we have numbers for how many commuters to how many off campus people there are? Stuff like that.
I mean really, commuters and campus-ers probably don't need the bus pass... but how many people do they make up?

P.s: You and Taunton are more alike then you both think you are!

That's highly probable. And kinda scary! XD

From my perspective (as someone who goes downtown 2-3 times a week), a bus opt would be a real pain in the ass if I have to pay more.

I don't think I could survive without the bus pass! But there are many other things I would love to opt out of. I could get $200 back just from the athletic center fees.

Considering the bus pass is only about $100:

100/2.40 (cost of bus) = 41 times to break even

41 times / 32 weeks of school = taking the bus 1.3 times a week.

Not all of us have the luxury of living on campus, or choose not to live on campus. Others like to volunteer, work, and actually experience the hamilton community.

Considering $100 is a STEAL, compared to the TTC which is about $100/month, I am against an opt-out. It's the large number of students that pay into the HSR fee that allow the MSU to get such a discounted rate.

I take the HSR about 300 times each year. When I graduate this year, I'll have taken it for 4 straight years. That's 1200 bus rides.

At 1.25 hours each, that's 1500 hours. Which is 62.5 days.
Please tell me that my math is incredibly wrong.. I might throw up if I've actually taken the bus for a combined time of 62 days.

I lol'd at theft. As others have pointed out it is not theft, it is much like taxes or unemployment deductions.

I rarely use the HSR pass, I've probably used it maybe 10 times total since I've been at McMaster. That said it is one of the services I don't mind paying for because it does benefit the student body as a whole.

An opt-out option as has been pointed out would cause the price to rise higher for students who need the service and possibly even make it so the HSR doesn't offer this unlimited pass to McMaster b/ it is no longer cost-effective.

I don't use the pass but I like knowing that if I do want to go out somewhere in Hamilton, with a friend or whatever we can just hop on the bus and go. We don't have to worry about if we have enough change etc. It has been beneficial to me a few times in the past and it is beneficial to thousands of students every day which makes it worthwhile to me. Knowing friends take the bus to school every day and don't have to walk in cold weather is worth it enough for me. If I lived off campus and needed a bus I'd like to have this pass so why take that away from fellow students and friends or make them pay more for it.

I think its good karma really. If I need something one and someone else can help me with it I'll be very grateful if they do.

You give a little, you get a little.

Also please A. Marlowe cut the crap and stop saying they are taking your money for X service without consenting. By accepting an offer to be educated by this University and by paying tuition you agree to allow them to spend the money in the way they have set out. If you don't want to pay for the fees McMaster has negotiated and decided are important for their student body than don't attend McMaster.

For those who are happy to have the non-HSR student body chipping in a few buckaroos to subsidize their transportation, mind flipping me a few bucks for the GO?

Originally Posted by MDCL

For those who are happy to have the non-HSR student body chipping in a few buckaroos to subsidize their transportation, mind flipping me a few bucks for the GO?

That'd be sweet.

$226 for a monthly pass for me. I'd love to have an unlimited school year pass for a cheap discount.

If there was an opt-out for every service you pay student fees towards, you would end up paying for the services you DO use at a much higher cost. In the end it would most likely end up being the same as just paying smaller amounts and helping out the common good.

If you live in residence, the bus pass seems irrelevant until you live off campus. Much like how people don't agree with a student levy until they benefit from its cost. Just keep in mind that everyone is paying (almost) the same amount, and its not fair or just to make people pay more for the services that are more financially sound if everyone does their part. It's about being a global citizen, not a selfish, penny-saving individual.

Originally Posted by Matt Wright

If there was an opt-out for every service you pay student fees towards, you would end up paying for the services you DO use at a much higher cost. In the end it would most likely end up being the same as just paying smaller amounts and helping out the common good.

If you live in residence, the bus pass seems irrelevant until you live off campus. Much like how people don't agree with a student levy until they benefit from its cost. Just keep in mind that everyone is paying (almost) the same amount, and its not fair or just to make people pay more for the services that are more financially sound if everyone does their part. It's about being a global citizen, not a selfish, penny-saving individual.

Excellent point.

If I opt out of A service that thousands of students use every day because I don't feel like chipping in X dollars but then I frequently use service B that all of the sudden has an opt-out option and I get charged more for service B now and it becomes unaffordable for me that would be annoying and inconvenient.

Instead I'd rather pay for all services and use the ones I need and also have others pay for all services and use the ones they need. That way all services are funded and whoever needs them can take full advantage of them without having to worry about rising costs and affordability.

Originally Posted by Matt Wright

It's about being a global citizen, not a selfish, penny-saving individual.

Well then, I'm looking forward to you advocating on behalf of the McMaster Go commuters for directing a portion of the HSR fees collected to subsidizing the GO student pass.

After all, defining global citizens to be Mac students who live within the reaches of the HSR would be quite an oxymoron, wouldn't it?