I've been accepted to both chemical biology and biochemistry (and the research specialization) for second year. I've tried to do some research on both yet I'm still somewhat torn between which programs I should choose. Can someone explain some of the major differences between chembio and biochem in terms of courses, difficulty, coop opportunities and just the general feel of the programs? FYI, I did a lot better in chemistry than I did in biology in first year life science, but I still am interested in a lot of the stuff I learned in Bio 1M03 and 1A03.

So this is what I've discovered about both programs so far:

Chemical Biology:
- small program
- more of a chemistry focus
- less electives

Biochemistry:
- relatively larger program
- more of a biology focus
- get some health science privileges

Originally Posted by NishanZ

I've been accepted to both chemical biology and biochemistry (and the research specialization) for second year. I've tried to do some research on both yet I'm still somewhat torn between which programs I should choose. Can someone explain some of the major differences between chembio and biochem in terms of courses, difficulty, coop opportunities and just the general feel of the programs? FYI, I did a lot better in chemistry than I did in biology in first year life science, but I still am interested in a lot of the stuff I learned in Bio 1M03 and 1A03.

So this is what I've discovered about both programs so far:

Chemical Biology:
- small program
- more of a chemistry focus
- less electives

Biochemistry:
- relatively larger program
- more of a biology focus
- get some health science privileges

Not sure what exactly you mean by "health science privileges"...

Also with biochem it's important to differentiate between core and specialization...core has a ton of elective spaces, a lot less hands-on experience. The specializations prepare you much better for grad school.

Difficulty is subjective. I'd say second year chembio is harder, although they are really very similar. If you're in chembio then you take bioanalytical in second year first term, and if you're in biochem you take it in third year...and that one year of background knowledge would make the course way easier. Other than that though, most of the second year courses are the same. It's really easy to switch from chembio to biochem, I don't know what the process is like for switching from biochem to chembio.

Anyways, I'd recommend looking at the 3rd and 4th year required courses and seeing which interest you more.

Thanks a lot! In terms of graduate school and careers (post undergrad) both degrees could lead to, is there any difference?

Biochem and chem bio are almost identical second year. They recently changed biochem so there are more list courses rather than required courses.

The main difference in the programs is the perspectives of the courses. Biochem looks at things from a slightly broader perspective (not really bio perspective) than chem bio ie. biochem looks at proteins and chem bio looks at the functional groups within the protein. Although chem bio does look at a more molecular level, biochem has many electives so you can take these type of courses if you are interested in it but don't want to major.

There is coop for both programs, the opportunities are relatively good for each.

Lots of overlap. If you want to do something more chemical, chembio would probably be better. In my experience, it also gives you an advantage if you're doing bio/biochem lab work also, because you know chemistry that many people you'll be working with (and competing with jobs for) don't. For grad school, chembio gives you the option of doing chem or chembio plus anything a biochem grad can do, and I don't think there are any areas of grad school that a biochem grad could do that a chembio grad couldn't.
Also, in terms of lab work, chembio students have a much easier time getting jobs in biochem labs at mac than biochem students would have getting into chem/chembio labs. The chem department is relatively small so they heavily favour students from their own department.

***That is a generalization, it obviously depends on the person and their individual experiences.

Edit: Alex I'm not sure I agree with your description of the differences between chembio and biochem. How do you "look at proteins" without looking at the functional groups within the protein? IIRC, we spent more time looking at protein functional groups in biochem 2BB3 than in any chembio course.

Yeah, having been through this decision already, just keep it simple.

Chembio = more chem
Biochem = more bio

2nd year courses are basically the same, the lab courses are very different though. Chembio labs have three parts to them: organic, biological and analytical. From my understanding, biochem labs also have biological and analytical aspects, but none of the organic aspect. That would be the biggest difference between the programs.

Many 3rd and 4th year courses from each program as useful to students in either program. But the required courses are very different. I suggest you compare 3rd and 4th year course requirements to see what interests you more. And make your decision from there.

I enjoyed the small class size, which made it easy to know literally everyone in the program.

Thanks everyone! For next year, the courses I need to take are:

Chem Bio 2AA3 - Bio-Analytical Chemistry
Chem Bio 2L03 - Chem Bio Lab
Chem Bio 2P03 - Bio-Physical Chemistry
Chem Bio 2Q03 - Inquiry
Chem Bio 2OA3 - Organic Chemistry I
Chem Bio 2OB3 - Organic Chemistry II
Biochem 2B03 - Nucleic Acid Structure and Function
Biochem 2BB3 - Protein Structure and Function
Biology 2B03 - Cell Biology
1 elective - most likely microecon

I know I need to take Chem Bio 2OA3 + Biochem 2B03 in Term 1 and Chem Bio 2OB3 + Biochem 2BB3 in Term two, but what do you guys recommend I take in Term 1/2 for the rest of the courses?

Originally Posted by NishanZ

Thanks everyone! For next year, the courses I need to take are:

Chem Bio 2AA3 - Bio-Analytical Chemistry
Chem Bio 2L03 - Chem Bio Lab
Chem Bio 2P03 - Bio-Physical Chemistry
Chem Bio 2Q03 - Inquiry
Chem Bio 2OA3 - Organic Chemistry I
Chem Bio 2OB3 - Organic Chemistry II
Biochem 2B03 - Nucleic Acid Structure and Function
Biochem 2BB3 - Protein Structure and Function
Biology 2B03 - Cell Biology
1 elective - most likely microecon

I know I need to take Chem Bio 2OA3 + Biochem 2B03 in Term 1 and Chem Bio 2OB3 + Biochem 2BB3 in Term two, but what do you guys recommend I take in Term 1/2 for the rest of the courses?

You won't have a choice in any of them.

Term 1 = 2AA3, 2Q03, 2P03, 2OA3, biochem 2B03
Term 2 = 2L03, 2OB3, bio 2B03, biochem 2BB3, elective.

Check the master timetable and you'll see that that is your only option.

Yeah I just checked and you're right... Except there's only one core for each of these courses and Biochem 2B03 conflicts with Chem Bio 2OA3 (but not chem 2OA3) and Biochem 2BB3 conflicts with Biology 2B03... do they add extra cores later?

Originally Posted by NishanZ

Yeah I just checked and you're right... Except there's only one core for each of these courses and Biochem 2B03 conflicts with Chem Bio 2OA3 (but not chem 2OA3) and Biochem 2BB3 conflicts with Biology 2B03... do they add extra cores later?

Chembio 2OA3 and chem 2OA3 are the same course, the different course codes are only for lab sections. They should be at the same time. You should email the department to tell them this; somehow the registrar manages to screw it up every year (altho usually it's with chembio 2A03/2AA3). You might as well also mention the biochem/bio thing since they're required for chembio.

Originally Posted by starfish

Chembio 2OA3 and chem 2OA3 are the same course, the different course codes are only for lab sections. They should be at the same time. You should email the department to tell them this; somehow the registrar manages to screw it up every year (altho usually it's with chembio 2A03/2AA3). You might as well also mention the biochem/bio thing since they're required for chembio.

http://www.science.mcmaster. ca/ass...ries/APPC-2013

According to that document, the chem bio 2oa3/2ob3 will be 'tied administratively with 2OC3 and 2OD3' this year instead.

Originally Posted by yoni

http://www.science.mcmaster. ca/ass...ries/APPC-2013

According to that document, the chem bio 2oa3/2ob3 will be 'tied administratively with 2OC3 and 2OD3' this year instead.

Ooh hmm. That's interesting - especially since 2OC3 and 2OD3 don't have a lab (there is a separate all-encompassing integrated lab course instead). In previous years, that was the reason why they had tied the chembio orgos with chem 2OA/2OB, I wonder how they got around that this year, since it looks like 2OC and 2OD still don't have their own labs.

Although, this still doesn't solve the conflict