So using this link: http://ug.degroote.mcmaster. ca/reg...s-for-level-1/

I made sure that I had all the required courses that it listed

which for my program (business level 1) is:

3 units Commerce 1E03
3 units Commerce 1AA3
3 units Commerce 1BA3
3 units Economics 1B03
3 units Economics 1BB3
3 units Math 1M03


Which is a total of 18 units (9 in each semester) satisfying my 60% requirement for OSAP.

I decided to look at the level 2 requirements and this is where I get confused.

In the 'specific notes for level 2' it says:

'If you failed Commerce 1PA0 in first year, you must retake it in the first semester this year. You have to pass 1PA0 to graduate.'

1PA0 isn't even on the list of required courses for level 1...

One other thing I'm confused about is it says: "if you only took 24 units in level 1, you must complete the 6 units of electives you missed before you can move on to level 3"

Does that mean that taking the required courses won't suffice? That instead I need to take 30 total units (an additional 12 units in my case) even if those 12 electives units have nothing to do with my major and I've already met the requirements?

http://academiccalendars.rom cmaste...ret urnto=563

Check that link. 1PA0 used to be a requirement for anyone who entered before September 2014. They probably didn't update the Commerce site with the latest information.

And to meet your degree requirments you need 30 units. Osap is just financial aid, has nothing to do with your degree. Yes you need 18 units to recieve OSAP, but you need 24 units to be accetped into second year. And 30 units to be accepted into third year.

So you need minimum 24 units first year to go onto second. Then to go onto third you'll need those additional 6 units. Which you can either get in first year, second year, or over the summers before your third year.

If you intend to finish an honours degree in 4 years, you must take 30 units a year for a total of 120 units required for graduation.

The link you posted also says "Register for 30 units of course work. You’ll be taking a combination of required courses and elective courses from other faculties." and "You are also required to take 3 – 12 units of electives to bring your total number of units to 30. Electives are courses taken outside your major. That is, they are non-commerce courses. You get to choose what you’d like to take."

As for 1PA0, the course calendar says "Not open to Business I students who entered the program in September 2014 or later.", which means you do not have to/cannot take it.

So yes, you need to register for an additional 12 units if you want to graduate in 4 years.

Okay thanks to the both of you for helping me out but theres one thing that I'm still unsure about.

RSK1 said that I need a minimum of 24 units to get from 1st to 2nd year and 30 units to get into third year.

But Ems467 is saying that I need 120 units total for graduation..

So I only need 30 units to get into third year but I need to have 120 credits to graduate?

I apologize I wasn't very clear. Yes you need 120 units to graduate. 30 units from each year (4 x 30 = 120).

However, the requirement to be accepted to second year is only a minimum of 24 units from the first year (you can hold off 6 units to summer or second year). To get into third year you'll need 60 units.

(30 from first year + 30 from second year)

But if you choose to hold off the 6 from first year, you'll need to still need to complete them before your third year. Either during the summers or during your second year but you'll have 36 units in your second year then.

Originally Posted by RedRanger

So I only need 30 units to get into third year but I need to have 120 credits to graduate?

I fear for you when you take accounting courses, LMAO

Originally Posted by RedRanger

Does that mean that taking the required courses won't suffice? That instead I need to take 30 total units (an additional 12 units in my case) even if those 12 electives units have nothing to do with my major and I've already met the requirements?

I just want to address this comment since pretty much everything else has been answered. The courses that you listed are required courses, but that's not the only thing required for your degree. You must take electives, and I believe there is also a list from which you must take a certain number of units prior to graduation. Electives are called that because you can elect to take whatever course you want, not because those credits are optional. In the course calendar it will tell you how many units of electives you need.

Originally Posted by allanandthera

I fear for you when you take accounting courses, LMAO

Ah, just what I need... smart ass comments.

I am aware that 4x30 is 120

Where my confusion lies is why only 30 credits are needed to enter into level 3 yet I'm supposed to have 120 credits at the end of level 4.

If I'm supposed to get 30 credits every year then why don't I need 60 credits to enter into level 3..since that is what I should have by the third year?

Originally Posted by RedRanger

Ah, just what I need... smart ass comments.

I am aware that 4x30 is 120

Where my confusion lies is why only 30 credits are needed to enter into level 3 yet I'm supposed to have 120 credits at the end of level 4.

If I'm supposed to get 30 credits every year then why don't I need 60 credits to enter into level 3..since that is what I should have by the third year?

You do need 60...re-read RSK1's latest post.

Originally Posted by starfish

You do need 60...re-read RSK1's latest post.

Oh okay I was just going off the information given here:

http://ug.degroote.mcmaster. ca/reg...s-for-level-2/

In the notes for level 2 students it says: "If you only took 24 units in level 1, you must complete the 6 units of electives you missed before you can move on to level 3. However, there is only room for 3 elective units in the course requirements for level 2."

They only mention the 30 credits from level 1 to reach level 3, I guess with the implication being that I have completed 30 credits in year 2.

Okay that makes much more sense now.

I gotta say though, very disappointing that I have to waste extra money on electives that really aren't necessary. I guess I might as well pursue the med school prerequisites so the electives won't be a total waste.

Thanks a lot starfish, you've come to my rescue several times now.

If you see this could you answer me one more thing:

I am only going to take 18 credits total this year (9 in each semester) and a course or two in the summer

I'm currently ill (not contagious) and was planning on waiting till next year so I could heal and do my best but I had to apply this year because if I wait till next year I will lose my 30% OSAP discount.

Since I'm only taking 18 credits and maybe might be able to get a total of 21~24 in the summer, I will not meet the requirements for level 2 because i'll be missing 9~6 units.

So next year, will I be able to finish the electives I haven't completed in level 1 during the first term and continue on to doing my level 2 courses in the 2nd term?

or will they make me wait until the year after (now 3rd year) to enter into level 2 and take the required courses for level 2?

This is the last thing I'm confused about.

Originally Posted by RedRanger

Since I'm only taking 18 credits and maybe might be able to get a total of 21~24 in the summer, I will not meet the requirements for level 2 because i'll be missing 9~6 units.

So next year, will I be able to finish the electives I haven't completed in level 1 during the first term and continue on to doing my level 2 courses in the 2nd term?

or will they make me wait until the year after (now 3rd year) to enter into level 2 and take the required courses for level 2?

This is a very complicated question and i recommend you ask APO (academic programs office) for the best answer. But to answer your question short.

-You will only move to level 2 if you have over 24 credits by the end of your first year's summer.
-You cannot do any level 2 course work until you have completed those 24 credits and been confirmed as a 2nd year student.
-By the end of your year 2 summer, you need 60 credits : 30 from first year and 30 from second year to move to level 3.

You do not dictate whether you can take first or second year courses in your year as some courses are specifically offered in one term or the other. But you can cover electives that are missing. For example, I took 9 courses in first year and I am taking a course in second year that will fill up that elective. But to get to the 30 credits per year, I had to take summer school to fill that up.

You may run into problems of you get under 24 credits before first year summer ends (august), as ALL 2nd year commerce courses require you to be in 2nd year to take them. You are not technically in 2nd year until you do 24 credits and pass as a 2nd year student by degree audit done in april and in august.

Easiest option: Call APO and ask them

Originally Posted by RedRanger

I gotta say though, very disappointing that I have to waste extra money on electives that really aren't necessary. I guess I might as well pursue the med school prerequisites so the electives won't be a total waste.

The electives ARE necessary. Part of your education is being well-rounded and gaining exposure to different subjects and ideas. Would you rather they specify that you need x units from the faculty of science, x from humanities, etc? (Some schools do do that, but then you have less choice to pursue your own interests).

Originally Posted by RedRanger

Thanks a lot starfish, you've come to my rescue several times now.

If you see this could you answer me one more thing:

I am only going to take 18 credits total this year (9 in each semester) and a course or two in the summer

I'm currently ill (not contagious) and was planning on waiting till next year so I could heal and do my best but I had to apply this year because if I wait till next year I will lose my 30% OSAP discount.

Since I'm only taking 18 credits and maybe might be able to get a total of 21~24 in the summer, I will not meet the requirements for level 2 because i'll be missing 9~6 units.

So next year, will I be able to finish the electives I haven't completed in level 1 during the first term and continue on to doing my level 2 courses in the 2nd term?

or will they make me wait until the year after (now 3rd year) to enter into level 2 and take the required courses for level 2?

This is the last thing I'm confused about.

The maximum you can take in the summer (without overloading) is 12 units (6 per term), so you could get fully caught up if you wanted. But, if you get a total of 24 units, you'll be able to move on into level 2, and then you'll have to make up the missing 6 units at some point before you start level 3 (as well as completing 30 units in level 2).

If by the end of the summer you have less than 24 units, you will not be able to enter level 2. There is a program note in the course calendar stating that students registered in business I are not allowed to take upper year commerce courses. You may or may not be able to get a waiver, but assuming they don't make exceptions, you'll have to spend another year in business I before being allowed to continue in your program.

Also, the 30% off tuition thing will only apply to you for this year. It's not like you're grandfathered in...so if you're going to essentially waste the year anyways, then you'll be wasting the other 70% of the money you're paying, plus paying for an additional four years without the 30% off. Getting the money back really isn't a reason to start this year vs next year - unless you mean you will lose it in your fourth year if you wait? But either way, you'll be paying an extra year if taking the reduced course load is going to set you back. There are plenty of reasons why people might choose to extend their degree to five years and/or take a reduced courseload, but getting the 30% off doesn't really seem to be a logical reason.

Originally Posted by starfish

The electives ARE necessary. Part of your education is being well-rounded and gaining exposure to different subjects and ideas. Would you rather they specify that you need x units from the faculty of science, x from humanities, etc? (Some schools do do that, but then you have less choice to pursue your own interests).

Let's face it, it's the university's other faculty making noise and forcing us commerce students to subsidize the useless courses that are irrelevant to our career. I am making a petition to stop this excessive electives in our program I hope thread starter will sign it.

The big 4 accounting firms, and banks don't give a $#!T that you took that random course in social psychology or environmental science.

Originally Posted by allanandthera

Let's face it, it's the university's other faculty making noise and forcing us commerce students to subsidize the useless courses that are irrelevant to our career. I am making a petition to stop this excessive electives in our program I hope thread starter will sign it.

The big 4 accounting firms, and banks don't give a $#!T that you took that random course in social psychology or environmental science.

So how would you make up the remaining 30 units? The concept of a full course load and what it entails is the same across most if not all universities. How will employers view you then, compared to commerce/business degrees from other schools?

Also I am a big believer in being educated simply so that you're not ignorant, so that you can become a better person, more aware of the world around you and able to contribute to it - not everything you learn has to be directly relevant to your future job, though those random courses may help even in ways that you can't predict.