Originally Posted by TedMosby

From what I know of Islam, a man can have upto four? wives while a woman can have only one husband.

This exception was made for certain set of circumstances and has it's specific conditions. Polygamy is forbidden if these conditions aren't met. I will explain further:
During the time of Mohamed who is regarded as a central figure in Islam and a messenger to God, there were many tribal wars. This was the time that the Quran was brought down. The main reason for allowing men to marry more than one wife (up to four) was that, undeniably, many men's lives are lost in war. This leaves the population with a number of women that is disproportionately greater than the number of men. Remember, we are talking about a time when people lived in tribes and the man was the breadwinner while women were housewives and financially dependent on men. Many women were left unmarried or widowed with orphans to take care of and no financial means to support themselves or their children.
Islam allowed men to take more than one wife for this reason. The conditions were:
1) The man must be financially able to take on the additional responsibility of more than one wife.
2) He must provide a separate residence for each wife.
3) He must treat each wife EQUALLY. There can be no difference in his treatment or attention amongst them. This applies to his financial support of them as well.

How many men you know are capable of financially supporting more than one woman (and her children), providing each with a separate house, and loving each of them equally?
So as you can see this exception was made with very stringent conditions, and for good reason- it was only to be practiced in desperate circumstances.

The reason the exception isn't allowed in reverse is that it would've been nearly impossible to determine who the father was (if women were to marry more than one man) (this was loooong before DNA testing etc)

That being said...polygamy still occurs in the Muslim world without satisfying all these conditions, but that isn't a problem with the religion itself...it's just bad practice and taking things out of context really.

Originally Posted by TedMosby

A husband is allowed to beat his wife (lightly) if he suspects that she has been disloyal to him, but women cannot do the same.

Wife beating is not allowed in Islam under ANY condition. Women are held in high esteem and respected. There is a particular verse in the Quran that is also taken out of context to mean that a man may hit his wife lightly...but there is a lot of argument among Islamic scholars regarding this verse. The particular verse deals with disagreements between man and wife- the man is first to admonish the wife gently is she has made a mistake and if the disagreement is still there he is to leave her. The world causing the controversy could mean either hit or leave (as in take a breather) so of course there's going to be some backwards morons out there who take it to mean you can hit your wife.

Originally Posted by TedMosby

I also believe that in a divorce a man gets twice as much inheritance from the marriage as a woman does. Furthermore, in Sharia courts based on Sharia law from Islam, a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's.

I think you're mixing up divorce and inheritance here :S

In marriage, a muslim woman is entitled to keep all of her belongings from before her marriage (any land that she owned, whatever finances she possessed, etc). She does not have to share any of this with her husband unless she wishes to do so! She is also not obligated to contribute to the finances of running a household- so if she works and makes a living, she doesn't have to forward any of her salary towards household finances, it's her to keep unless she WANTS to contribute.

I'm telling you all this because it's necessary information to understand the reasoning behind the inheritance rules.
When someone dies, in Islamic law, his inheritance is distributed according to his WILL. If the person hasn't made a will, the inheritance is divided such that his sons will get twice the inheritance of the daughters. This makes sense when you realize that a man is responsible for financially supporting his family while the woman is not obligated to do so- hence why males get more than females of the same degree of relation.

Originally Posted by Cliu91

Have you really been as far as decided to use even want to go look more like?

WHAT?!

LOL to actually answer the OP- cross cultural relationships work for people who don't think of them as cross cultural relationships.

What I'm trying to say is- If you're compatible with this person in every way except the fact that you're from different ethnic groups, the idea of it not working for that reason is kind of ridiculous if you think about it.

Originally Posted by dsalvatore

This exception was made for certain set of circumstances and has it's specific conditions. Polygamy is forbidden if these conditions aren't met. I will explain further:
During the time of Mohamed who is regarded as a central figure in Islam and a messenger to God, there were many tribal wars. This was the time that the Quran was brought down. The main reason for allowing men to marry more than one wife (up to four) was that, undeniably, many men's lives are lost in war. This leaves the population with a number of women that is disproportionately greater than the number of men. Remember, we are talking about a time when people lived in tribes and the man was the breadwinner while women were housewives and financially dependent on men. Many women were left unmarried or widowed with orphans to take care of and no financial means to support themselves or their children.
Islam allowed men to take more than one wife for this reason. The conditions were:
1) The man must be financially able to take on the additional responsibility of more than one wife.
2) He must provide a separate residence for each wife.
3) He must treat each wife EQUALLY. There can be no difference in his treatment or attention amongst them. This applies to his financial support of them as well.

How many men you know are capable of financially supporting more than one woman (and her children), providing each with a separate house, and loving each of them equally?
So as you can see this exception was made with very stringent conditions, and for good reason- it was only to be practiced in desperate circumstances.

The reason the exception isn't allowed in reverse is that it would've been nearly impossible to determine who the father was (if women were to marry more than one man) (this was loooong before DNA testing etc)

That being said...polygamy still occurs in the Muslim world without satisfying all these conditions, but that isn't a problem with the religion itself...it's just bad practice and taking things out of context really.


Wife beating is not allowed in Islam under ANY condition. Women are held in high esteem and respected. There is a particular verse in the Quran that is also taken out of context to mean that a man may hit his wife lightly...but there is a lot of argument among Islamic scholars regarding this verse. The particular verse deals with disagreements between man and wife- the man is first to admonish the wife gently is she has made a mistake and if the disagreement is still there he is to leave her. The world causing the controversy could mean either hit or leave (as in take a breather) so of course there's going to be some backwards morons out there who take it to mean you can hit your wife.




I think you're mixing up divorce and inheritance here :S

In marriage, a muslim woman is entitled to keep all of her belongings from before her marriage (any land that she owned, whatever finances she possessed, etc). She does not have to share any of this with her husband unless she wishes to do so! She is also not obligated to contribute to the finances of running a household- so if she works and makes a living, she doesn't have to forward any of her salary towards household finances, it's her to keep unless she WANTS to contribute.

I'm telling you all this because it's necessary information to understand the reasoning behind the inheritance rules.
When someone dies, in Islamic law, his inheritance is distributed according to his WILL. If the person hasn't made a will, the inheritance is divided such that his sons will get twice the inheritance of the daughters. This makes sense when you realize that a man is responsible for financially supporting his family while the woman is not obligated to do so- hence why males get more than females of the same degree of relation.

So what I'm gathering from this is that there are verses from the Quran that are outdated/old-age and should be changed/removed, and we agree that the Quran says a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's.

Originally Posted by KN1991

But what you just said about homophobia is really disturbing - it's the same excuse you see being used by people that have a deep hatred for homosexuals. So often you see protesters in Canada/U.S.with signs that say "God hates f**s" that jump up and say that they're not "afraid of homosexuals" when they're called homophobic. There is no "reason" for not permitting homosexuality that can't be classified as homophobia.

Homosexuality is legit- it's not going anywhere just because some guy that wrote a book said so

Heh, like I said, I know next to NOTHING about homosexuality and Islam, and it's probably better if you don't take what I've said to be a representative of what the real Islamic POV is. I'll just say that I really don't hate or fear homosexuals, and I sincerely apologize if that's what it sounded like. That was NOT homophobia in disguise. I was just trying to seperate homophobia with having a specific viewpoint on it...which I obviously failed to do. Please view my apparently disturbing viewpoint on homophobia as coming from someone severely ignorant!

Originally Posted by mfattal

and saudi is a multicultural country

Please look up the definition of multicultural before you say something so dumbfoundingly ridiculous. Saudi Arabia is possibly the most repressive monocultural society on Earth.

Tailsnake asked for solid proof evidence, quotes from the islamic scripts of quran and hadith, well saint tailsnake say hello to the evidence.

Regarding women beating, directly from quran, Sura Dawood:

DAWOOD: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

So the quran is instructing men who are more superior than women, to beat disobedient women.

Regarding homophobia and "hate" toward homosexuals, this is evidence from hadith, which in quran it was said that hadith should be taken to be the religion guide

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.

If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.

Not satisfied ? Evidence from Quran, sura 27

NAML: We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!

@dsalvatore,

Wife beating is not allowed in Islam under ANY condition

, there is no need to try to hide the fact that quran asked men to beat women, its not controversial, if you can read arabic its fuc*ing obvious, don't tell me Islamic scholars want to look into the meaning etc, they just want to cover what it says.

@L'Étoile, you raise valid points. However, an interesting question came to my mind: Is there any account of the prophet beating any of his wives? To my limited knowledge on this topic, I don't think he ever has. If true, what would this imply? Aren't Muslims supposed to follow their prophet's lead?

yes, men are allowed to beat their wives.

but the question is: how?

i think its just enough to give lesson to their wives. yeah.. you can read the translation by yourself

I cant imagine a men beat his wife as hard as a he smack down his enemy. (unless he's drunk)

Originally Posted by Voidness

@L'Étoile, you raise valid points. However, an interesting question came to my mind: Is there any account of the prophet beating any of his wives? To my limited knowledge on this topic, I don't think he ever has. If true, what would this imply? Aren't Muslims supposed to follow their prophet's lead?

I think he never beat any of his wives, feel free to correct. However, to say a Muslim is to follow Moe's lead is to say a Muslim will also commit criminal acts by today's standards.

So are we going with fundamental and/or crazy Mid Eastern dictator style Islam here? 'Cause fundamental sects of any religion can be pretty off the wall, and not representative. Like, there are Christian groups that go for polygamy, and some Amish Mennonites don't use electricity...

When old old teachings are made, they are based on social norms of the time. As time goes on its up to individuals to take what they want from the teachings. The quran isn't saying to beat your wife, its allowing it based on 7th century social norms. Its like smoking, you are allowed to do it, it doesn't make it right or justified but people can make that judgment on their own.

DAWOOD: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

Sounds to me like women in the early 20th century... considering this is a 7th century passage I don't find this terrible. Not everything needs to be followed explicitly and some things can and should actually be ignored

Can we please stop this ... I had no intention of talking and arguing about islam and how backward its, I also had no intention of showing how muslims lie all the time and try to show that their religion is the most peaceful thing that ever happened to this earth.

All I was trying to show the boy mfattal, is that Saudi Arabia is SO NOT a multicultural country and it just operates on the islamic teachings/arabic cultures and does not appreciate, accept or promote other cultures/religions/races etc etc

I also did not mean to offend any muslim, as long you don't shove your religion down my throat, I am fine with you.

The thing is, Muslims won't ever allow the Quran to be changed. Ever. And that's what wrong with Islam and many other religions that are holding onto old-age beliefs.

Furthermore, the Quran is the word of God to a Muslim and anything that is stated in it is considered morally correct, even today. Which is why many middle-eastern cultures are the way they are, because they are "justified" by the Quran.

The only way to move away from this is to make some changes to the book. But again, that is not allowed.

Originally Posted by L'Étoile

Can we please stop this ... I had no intention of talking and arguing about islam and how backward its,

It just seems like you're quitting because you have no counterargument which is fine by me....

Originally Posted by L'Étoile

I also had no intention of showing how muslims lie all the time and try to show that their religion is the most peaceful thing that ever happened to this earth.

I also did not mean to offend any muslim, as long you don't shove your religion down my religion I am fine with everything.

Let me remind you that YOU began this with your uncalled for attack on Arabs and Muslims; this thread didn't begin as a discussion on Islam until you came along and randomly vented your life's frustrations by ranting insults. At least have the decency to admit that instead of being condescending and pretending you didn't "mean to offend"