Originally Posted by Voidness

@L'Étoile, you raise valid points. However, an interesting question came to my mind: Is there any account of the prophet beating any of his wives? To my limited knowledge on this topic, I don't think he ever has. If true, what would this imply? Aren't Muslims supposed to follow their prophet's lead?

So first you ask L'etoile to find you a passage in the Quran that says it's OK to beat your wife/wives. They find you multiple passages and now you say "well, Mohamed didn't do it... and they're supposed to follow their prophet .. soooo that means Islam doesn't say to beat your wife" wtf kind of logic is that??? How can anyone actually sit here and say L'etoile is ending the conversation because they can't come up with arguments, it's the exact opposite, they realize how ignorant the little debate has gotten because no matter how many passages they point out some stoopid excuse is going to pop up.

Originally Posted by amememe

yes, men are allowed to beat their wives.

but the question is: how?

i think its just enough to give lesson to their wives. yeah.. you can read the translation by yourself

I cant imagine a men beat his wife as hard as a he smack down his enemy. (unless he's drunk)

So you admit they're allowed to beat their wives, but it's justified because it's "just enough to give lesson to their wives".... what... the.... eff ....... I just want to swear at you so bad right now Seriously, I'm not even going to waste my time pointing out everything that's wrong with what you just said, I just hope that this is all just the same person opening multiple accounts, and lives in Saudi and not in Canada where THAT SH** IS ILLEGAL.

But I mean.. at least you know.. I don't have to be worried about getting "smacked down like his enemy" by my husband .. unless of course he's drunk, then you know that's ok.

Originally Posted by mfattal1

The Quran does not say
Beet ur wife (1)

Where does it say that
beating your wife is wrong (2)
my Grandfather is a famous Shikh in Halab and he dosent even beet his wife (3)
and if something is said in the quran its best to be followed (4)
please dude ur making islam sound worse from some one who clearly dosent know the first thing about it (5)

and yes my main account is banned

(1) Might be valid if you could prove it instead of just saying it. Also, it's beat not beet.
(2) If you're trying to imply that spousal abuse is okay, then you're a moron.
(3) I don't even know why this is relevant
(4) This is why I hate religion. Blindly following something is a horrible thing to do.
(5) Based on all previous posts you have shown little applicable knowledge of your religion while L'Etoile has shown that he can argue coherently and with proof.

Originally Posted by KN1991

L'etoile is ending the conversation because they can't come up with arguments, it's the exact opposite, they realize how ignorant the little debate has gotten because no matter how many passages they point out some stoopid excuse is going to pop up.

That is exactly why I wanted this thread to end, honestly muslims can't take any criticism they assume its always to "attack" them like noor91 said i was attacking her.

I am an arab from a very religious family and I am supposed to be a muslim ... I raised valid points, then they bring them down by other means when they also say that Quran is the words of God and everything there is true ... smh.

Originally Posted by mfattal

Honestly I dont think it will work out because these 2 cultures are very different

unless they really love each other than thats a different story

Ive never seen an asian and a brown person together that lasted a long time

I could be wrong just an opinion
But it could work cause race isnt a big issue to many people any more

I am Vietnamese, and my boyfriend is Punjabi Sikh. We've been together a long time and are very happy together. However, culturally we are very similar - same opinions, same views, same outlooks on life. Our parents both have a preference to marry within our own "race" (both come directly from their respective motherlands), but they see how happy we make each other.

I have a friend whose half Chinese and half Tamil - at his parents marriage there was a lot of tension between the two families, but he said that eventually disappeared over time. I've also seen a couple of other marriages between orientals and "browns too" - a lot with my boyfriend's family members are in interracial marriages.

I think you aren't "wrong", its just what you've seen anecdotally. Race isn't a big deal for a lot of people, and I think over time its more and more common to see interracial couples - especially in a country as multicultural as Canada. As long as you are with a person that you love and makes you happy, irrespective of race, that is all that matters.

Originally Posted by mfattal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbICjWI7Vrw
:

The song is cheezy!
But seriously a person would not really give a s!ht about what others say about his religion, If he has strong beliefs.

Originally Posted by L'Étoile

I am arab myself so I know exactly their teachings and their morals. And I can say it with all the confidence that most if not all are ignorant about the actual world.

I also come from a very very very religious family so I know heck alot about my "religion" than you will ever know. And if you are muslim, then you are just trying to defend it. Islam is very homophobic, very disrespectful to woman and treats woman as a sexual gift sent to men. If you want to learn more about the actual islam tell me I will tell you.

And about the Pre and extramarital sex, I never said that Pre and extramarital sex is a part of a successful multicultural country, I was just listing the MANY horrible things about the country I lived in for years.

I was raised a Muslim, and though I do not claim to be an expert on Islam, I did notice a frightening hatred towards Jews, gays, and other non-Muslims within my extended family, who, mind you, aren't devout Muslims. Having read a little bit of the English translation of the Quran, I remember there being a lot of passages about the "disbelievers" who were made out to be the worst of all.

"And the disbelievers - they are the evildoers." (2:254)
"As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false gods that bring them out of light into the depths of darkness. Those are the companions of the Fire, and therein they shall abide." (2:257)
"Surely the disbelievers are for you an open enemy." (4:101)

Disbelievers are called "deaf, dumb, blind, so they understand not" (2:171).

Regarding women:
"Your wives are a tillage for you, so come to your tillage as you will and forward good deeds for yourselves." (2:223)
"And women have rights similar to those (of man) over them, according to known fair manner. And men are a degree above them." (2:228)
"... the male is the share equivalent of that of two females." (4:11)

The Quran reads as if it's addressed to a man. "The servants of Allah" shall be rewarded with "wide-eyed maidens, restraining their glances ... " (37: 40-48) There is quite a bit about being rewarded with virgins in Heaven if you believe in Allah.

The quotes above I found from the English version of the Quran at my house translated by Dr. L'Al Muhammad Chawla.

It was quite interesting to go through the book. There is good stuff, too. I quite like this quote:

"To you your religion, and to me my religion!" (109:5)

I certainly don't blame others for thinking that Islam is not a peaceful religion, for growing up in a Muslim country, I hardly witnessed fairness, open-mindedness, and acceptance. Also, isn't it worrying that most Islamic countries are known for their corruption, intolerance, and oppression of women?

Originally Posted by KN1991

So first you ask L'etoile to find you a passage in the Quran that says it's OK to beat your wife/wives. They find you multiple passages and now you say "well, Mohamed didn't do it... and they're supposed to follow their prophet .. soooo that means Islam doesn't say to beat your wife" wtf kind of logic is that??? How can anyone actually sit here and say L'etoile is ending the conversation because they can't come up with arguments, it's the exact opposite, they realize how ignorant the little debate has gotten because no matter how many passages they point out some stoopid excuse is going to pop up.

I wasn't arguing anything with L'Étoile, it's just an interesting question that came to my mind after reading those passages. If Muhammad never beat any of his wives, although the rules supposedly allows such a thing, what does that say about the current Muslim understanding of this rule? No one could possibly understand the rules and intentions of the Quraan more than Muhammad.

Anyways, I'm done here. I can't see how I can contribute to this topic any further.

Originally Posted by L'Étoile

That is exactly why I wanted this thread to end, honestly muslims can't take any criticism they assume its always to "attack" them like noor91 said i was attacking her.

I agree that there's something seriously wrong with the way a lot of Arab and Muslims are brought up. Most can't accept any kind of criticism. However, the revolutionary wave that's happening right now in the middle east is very encouraging. People are setting aside their differences to take down oppressive regimes and calling for freedom in peaceful demonstrations.

Originally Posted by mfattal

Im not Going to let any one talk about my prophet like this

Honestly, can we have a vote?

is mfattal the single worst poster on macinsiders?

if your prophet is so great, then why is he dead? lol and who is a better person: me or muhammad? and I mean strictly in terms of kidnapping women after wars and marrying them. : )

Originally Posted by Revolution1

I was raised a Muslim, and though I do not claim to be an expert on Islam, I did notice a frightening hatred towards Jews, gays, and other non-Muslims within my extended family, who, mind you, aren't devout Muslims. Having read a little bit of the English translation of the Quran, I remember there being a lot of passages about the "disbelievers" who were made out to be the worst of all.

"And the disbelievers - they are the evildoers." (2:254)
"As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false gods that bring them out of light into the depths of darkness. Those are the companions of the Fire, and therein they shall abide." (2:257)
"Surely the disbelievers are for you an open enemy." (4:101)

Disbelievers are called "deaf, dumb, blind, so they understand not" (2:171).

Regarding women:
"Your wives are a tillage for you, so come to your tillage as you will and forward good deeds for yourselves." (2:223)
"And women have rights similar to those (of man) over them, according to known fair manner. And men are a degree above them." (2:228)
"... the male is the share equivalent of that of two females." (4:11)

The Quran reads as if it's addressed to a man. "The servants of Allah" shall be rewarded with "wide-eyed maidens, restraining their glances ... " (37: 40-48) There is quite a bit about being rewarded with virgins in Heaven if you believe in Allah.

The quotes above I found from the English version of the Quran at my house translated by Dr. L'Al Muhammad Chawla.

It was quite interesting to go through the book. There is good stuff, too. I quite like this quote:

"To you your religion, and to me my religion!" (109:5)

I certainly don't blame others for thinking that Islam is not a peaceful religion, for growing up in a Muslim country, I hardly witnessed fairness, open-mindedness, and acceptance. Also, isn't it worrying that most Islamic countries are known for their corruption, intolerance, and oppression of women?

You're not lucky, I am here...

I actually memorized the whole Quran. So I don't reach to my bookshelf for the "quotes". It's all in my head.

So let me destroy your lies.

1)Disbelievers are evildoers ? Well that's not a correct translation, especially when you took 3/4 of the verse off. God orders in the beggining of that verse, to give money to charity and mentions that "THE disbelievers" (notice the word the) are unjust. Which is true, since the verse points at a certain kind of disbelievers during the time of Mohammed (peace be upon him) who used to steal from the poor. But Muslims are ORDERED to give charity.

2) The disbelievers are an open enemy ? Notice the word The again... The table (specific), a table (any table). Again you cut out most of the verse. In verse (4:101) God permitted Muslims to shorten prayers in time of WAR to be ready against an attack from the disbelievers.

3) Again, you are cutting the verse.

4) (4:11) Again you cut quite a lot of the verse. First, that verse talks of heritage (money from deceased parents). And the reason a son gets more than his sister is because he HAS to pay for his sister (Islamic Law). The girl doesn't have to pay for her brother, what she gets she can spend it how she wants. However, men have a clear responsibility.

5)(2:228) Men are a degree above ? Again you cut most of the verses. The Quran mentions divorce and that men have a degree above them. The "degree" refers to the responsibility to them. This can be known easily if you didn't cut out the beginning of the verse.

You are cutting verses to your own evil purposes.

That's like a guy name Ahmed saying :"I drove this morning to Toronto. Unfortunately, I ran over a cat. This was an accident which I regret."

An evil hater like you will remove some words and call Ahmed a murderer because he said " I ran over a cat."

Your evilness is one of the evils that seeks the destruction of Islam. But Muslims have withstood wars since their birth. Our Prophet was mocked and attacked but he became the most beloved man in Arabia. I know a lot of folks hate Islam but don't think you can destroy Islam when the greatest superpowers failed.

How did this thread go from ex's going back to one another to Islam and the Qu'ran? I'm a muslim and don't understand where all this is coming from.

But from the OP's question, Ex's can go back to one another as long as they find out what the main cause of their breakup was in the first place and both learn to fix what was wrong in order to grow as a couple.

Originally Posted by ruby101

what do you thought on brown people dating asian people ?

Russell Peters' worst nightmare

Originally Posted by Icecream

You're not lucky, I am here...



Your evilness is one of the evils that seeks the destruction of Islam.

islam's biggest challenge will be to combat rational thinking/logic/reason/education. I doubt any nonsensical ideology can withstand this. I hope islam dies within my lifetime, I doubt that but I'm still hopeful.