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Do you believe in heaven?

 
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:08 PM   #16
Rakim
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Where did God come into play in this?

Simple question... do you believe in heaven or not.
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:13 PM   #17
Juve
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if u dont believe in heaven then ur *says offensive word*
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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:13 PM   #18
mohammyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
crap...already broke the rule...think he'll still wanna be my friend?

yes or no, black or white, right or left , a or b, la di da
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizziepizzie View Post
Yes, I believe in it. I want to know your opinion: does believing in heaven come with believeng in God? I say yes, it does. Because neither can be scientifically proven or have any physical evidence to back it up. So I really think if you believe in one, you have to believe in the other.
The following is not directed at lizziepizzie, it's just an addition/related to your post.

Just a note (and yes I know the topic says 'What is your belief', but some of the claims people are using to back up their belief are pretty flaky):

Science proves nothing. Saying you don't believe in something because it's not scientifically conforming is utter nonsense. Firstly, if you made that statement, you should already know that science goes on the basis that what we approve of are things that haven't been proven false. Science doesn't prove anything; it disproves. The existence of a heaven has not been falsified, and so your statement is null.

Secondly, the laws and understanding of science is limited to human constraints. So not believing in God because science can't prove the existence of a God (or heaven) doesn't say much. Heaven is not a simple concept (think Chuck Norris for those compromised people)...the concept of God and heaven cannot be understood by humans, just like the origins or the universe and life. We humans just create hypotheses to try and explain it, so long as it makes sense to us and conforms to what we know. Truth is...we don't know much. And trying to make sense out of what we know is like finding a straw of hay in a needle stack. We take the easy (or rather only) way out by finding some other piece of hay.

And lastly, after all that, you should know why saying 'I don't believe in heaven or God because it's not logical' is...well...yea...

But to each his (or her) own.

Last edited by SilentWalker : 10-16-2010 at 02:21 PM.
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:18 PM   #20
nerual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentWalker View Post
The following is not directed at lizziepizzie, it's just an addition/related to your post.

Just a note (and yes I know the topic says 'What is your belief', but some of the claims people are using to back up their belief are pretty flaky):

Science proves nothing. Saying you don't believe in something because it's not scientifically conforming is utter nonsense. Firstly, if you made that statement, you should already know what science goes on the basis that what we approve of are things that haven't been proven false. Science doesn't prove anything; it disproves. The existence of a heaven has not been falsified, and so your statement is null.

Secondly, the laws and understanding of science is limited to human constraints. So not believing in God because science can't prove the existence of a God (or heaven) is pretty stupid. Heaven is not a simple concept (think Chuck Norris for those compromised people)...the concept of God and heaven cannot be understood by humans, just like the origins or the universe and life. We humans just create hypotheses to try and explain it, so long as it makes sense to us and conforms to what we know.

And lastly, after all that, you should know why saying 'I don't believe in heaven or God because it's not logical' is...well...yea...

But to each his (or her) own.
I'm not using science or logic as a way to "back up" my views (as in, it's not in any way proof that I am right), but it is an explanation...In my brain, the idea of there actually being a heaven doesn't make sense; therefore, it's not logical to me. Logic isn't something that is concrete...different people have different ideas of what is logical, which is why people have different opinions about things, and react differently in similar situations. More often than not, a person's behaviours appear logical to them, even if the rest of the world percieves it as insane.
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerual View Post
I'm not using science or logic as a way to "back up" my views (as in, it's not in any way proof that I am right), but it is an explanation...In my brain, the idea of there actually being a heaven doesn't make sense; therefore, it's not logical to me. Logic isn't something that is concrete...different people have different ideas of what is logical, which is why people have different opinions about things, and react differently in similar situations. More often than not, a person's behaviours appear logical to them, even if the rest of the world percieves it as insane.
Will do.

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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentWalker View Post
The following is not directed at lizziepizzie, it's just an addition/related to your post.

Just a note (and yes I know the topic says 'What is your belief', but some of the claims people are using to back up their belief are pretty flaky):

Science proves nothing. Saying you don't believe in something because it's not scientifically conforming is utter nonsense. Firstly, if you made that statement, you should already know what science goes on the basis that what we approve of are things that haven't been proven false. Science doesn't prove anything; it disproves. The existence of a heaven has not been falsified, and so your statement is null.

Secondly, the laws and understanding of science is limited to human constraints. So not believing in God because science can't prove the existence of a God (or heaven) is pretty stupid. Heaven is not a simple concept (think Chuck Norris for those compromised people)...the concept of God and heaven cannot be understood by humans, just like the origins or the universe and life. We humans just create hypotheses to try and explain it, so long as it makes sense to us and conforms to what we know.

And lastly, after all that, you should know why saying 'I don't believe in heaven or God because it's not logical' is...well...yea...

But to each his (or her) own.
Are you smoking some new sort of drug that turns ur mind into that of a 6 year old? the existence of heaven has not been falsified....so then that makes it real? so if some guy walks up to you and says that there is a magical monkey standing on your shoulders and you and everyone else just can't see it or feel it cause your too stupid.... its real cause you can't prove that what hes say is false because you can't see or feel it. stupidest statement. You do realize science is what proved to us that there IS gravity, there IS a possibility of life on other planets and that we technically CAN fly (in a plane).

Everything we humans know is based on science and the only reason we can have these discussions is cause of us learning and basing it on things that we know are real and aren't real (proven by science) so you really got to be out your mind for telling people they have to believe in God even though there is physically/scientifically no way to prove it. for all you know in a few hundred years there might be a way to prove God isn't real.

personally i do believe in God but you dun have the right to tell others they are stupid for not believing in God.

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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:34 PM   #23
lizziepizzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentWalker View Post
The following is not directed at lizziepizzie, it's just an addition/related to your post.

Just a note (and yes I know the topic says 'What is your belief', but some of the claims people are using to back up their belief are pretty flaky):

Science proves nothing. Saying you don't believe in something because it's not scientifically conforming is utter nonsense. Firstly, if you made that statement, you should already know that science goes on the basis that what we approve of are things that haven't been proven false. Science doesn't prove anything; it disproves. The existence of a heaven has not been falsified, and so your statement is null.

Secondly, the laws and understanding of science is limited to human constraints. So not believing in God because science can't prove the existence of a God (or heaven) doesn't say much. Heaven is not a simple concept (think Chuck Norris for those compromised people)...the concept of God and heaven cannot be understood by humans, just like the origins or the universe and life. We humans just create hypotheses to try and explain it, so long as it makes sense to us and conforms to what we know. Truth is...we don't know much. And trying to make sense out of what we know is like finding a straw of hay in a needle stack. We take the easy (or rather only) way out by finding some other piece of hay.

And lastly, after all that, you should know why saying 'I don't believe in heaven or God because it's not logical' is...well...yea...

But to each his (or her) own.
That's actually what I meant LOL, I agree with everything you just said. I guess I just didn't explain properly or write enough. I see how you can have thought that by reading what I wrote, I guess I should have used different wording and elborated. I think you're exactly right, science doesn't mean anything in regards to what you believe in. Believing is believing. If you believe in Sanata Clause, hell who's to say you can't believe in it? It's all up to the individual. Thanks for better explaining what I meant.
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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:38 PM   #24
Deegs14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juve View Post
if u dont believe in heaven then ur *says offensive word*
/sarcasm?
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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:39 PM   #25
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i like turtles
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
Are you smoking some new sort of drug that turns ur mind into that of a 6 year old? the existence of heaven has not been falsified....so then that makes it real? so if some guy walks up to you and says that there is a magical monkey standing on your shoulders and you and everyone else just can't see it or feel it cause your too stupid.... its real cause you can't prove that what hes say is false because you can't see or feel it. stupidest statement. You do realize science is what proved to us that there IS gravity, there IS a possibility of life on other planets and that we technically CAN fly (in a plane).

Everything we humans know is based on science and the only reason we can have these discussions is cause of us learning and basing it on things that we know are real and aren't real (proven by science) so you really got to be out your mind for telling people they have to believe in God even though there is physically/scientifically no way to prove it. for all you know in a few hundred years there might be a way to prove God isn't real.

personally i do believe in God but you dun have the right to tell others they are stupid for not believing in God.
What you said in your middle paragraph contradicts your final statement: "Everything we humans know is based on science and the only reason we can have these discussions is cause of us learning and basing it on things that we know are real and aren't real (proven by science) so you really got to be out your mind for telling people they have to believe in God even though there is physically/scientifically no way to prove it."

AND THEN to say that you do believe in God? After everything you said how it can't be scientfically proven, but yet everything we know has been ptoven by science... so if there is no evidence, it can't be real?

Spoke by a true science student.
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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshaan View Post
i like turtles
HOLY cow me to :o they are amazing along with pandas, penguins and panthers o.0
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
HOLY cow me to :o they are amazing along with pandas, penguins and panthers o.0
I like penguins!!! (note profile pic)
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Old 10-16-2010 at 02:46 PM   #29
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I don't believe in heaven.
However, as heaven is a fairly vague concept, I can understand why people might believe. I have no problem with that belief in and of itself, only with some of the additional beliefs that may be contingent upon it.

Also, I don't know why saying "I don't believe in heaven or God because it's not logical" is well... yea...
Of course, it depends on your definition of either of the objects, but I see nothing inherently "well... yea..." about it.

Finally (and this is not directed at you, SilentWalker; it's just a sidenote), I really hope that despite the controversial nature of this subject (why did somebody have to bring this up, anyway?) people can avoid ad hominem attacks? For instance, I understand what Bloodywarz is trying to say, but I think that first sentence was a little unnecessary.
Old 10-16-2010 at 02:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
Are you smoking some new sort of drug that turns ur mind into that of a 6 year old?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
the existence of heaven has not been falsified....so then that makes it real?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
You do realize science is what proved to us that there IS gravity, there IS a possibility of life on other planets and that we technically CAN fly (in a plane).
Wrong. Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the natural world.

Science looks at phenomena, creates a hypothesis about it, and finds a way to disprove them. If successful at least once (such as spontaneous creation), it is discarded, i.e. another explanation must be found for any other scientific phenomena that followed the disproved hypothesis under the tested conditions. The existence of heaven has not been tested. It has not been proven false. That does not mean that we have to believe in it. It just means that we can't say 'scientifically it doesn't exist'. The theory or gravity, relativity, quantum theory and the theory of evolution are just that - theories. Scientists based everything else in accordance to them because we haven't falsified them as yet. But that's what they're trying to do every day. Every new league in research opens up new opportunities to disprove what we believe in.

Again, nothing is proven by science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
Everything we humans know is based on science and the only reason we can have these discussions is cause of us learning and basing it on things that we know are real and aren't real (proven by science) so you really got to be out your mind for telling people they have to believe in God even though there is physically/scientifically no way to prove it. for all you know in a few hundred years there might be a way to prove God isn't real.
I'm not telling anyone they have to believe in God. I said that saying God or heaven doesn't exist because it doesn't conform to science is stupid. Prove me wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodywarz View Post
personally i do believe in God but you dun have the right to tell others they are stupid for not believing in God.
I called no one stupid. See above. And I did end with 'To each his own'. I respect opinions. Arguements based on false claims are another matter.

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