Originally Posted by bloodywarz

lol you know what me and you have in common? we make a shit load of spelling mistakes i spent hours arguing about why god was fake (when i didnt believe) and why he was real (when i did believe) typing all that up would require forever and doesn't work since im so damn lazy and ill be typing so fast there will be 2 many mistakes and everyone will get mad . But yea it all basically has to do with how each action has a reaction and how it would be an infinite amount of actions and there can never be a "first action" unless there is something that doesn't have to follow that law, and basically how something can't emerge out of nothing.

What do you mean, there would be an infinite amount of actions? I don't see how. Biblically speaking, it only took one action to form Eve. Women are so much simpler than men. How are there mutliple actions to form God? And I only made two typos (they weren't spelling mistakes). Everything else I directly copied from your posts lol.

Originally Posted by lizziepizzie

What do you mean, there would be an infinite amount of actions? I don't see how. Biblically speaking, it only took one action to form Eve. Women are so much simpler than men. How are there mutliple actions to form God? And I only made two typos (they weren't spelling mistakes). Everything else I directly copied from your posts lol.

you know the law; "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"? he is saying that since there is nothing to cause the first action which in turn would cause everything else, and thus you cannot prove or disprove a god exists as there is definite understanding of how the universe was created.

edit: This is why religion is a system of belief. Science is based on knowledge, while religion is based on what people truly believe from the bottom of their hearts. It's never a good idea to mix the two as both sides of the debate are strong believers in their viewpoint and neither has a definite answer.

sadly, I believe in worm food.

Originally Posted by lizziepizzie

What do you mean, there would be an infinite amount of actions? I don't see how. Biblically speaking, it only took one action to form Eve. Women are so much simpler than men. How are there mutliple actions to form God? And I only made two typos (they weren't spelling mistakes). Everything else I directly copied from your posts lol.

lol its more of a philosophical debate your bringing religion into it you cant do that you have to strictly stick to scientific laws and what not. Every thing is caused by some previous action before it. so if you were to trace each and every action before it, it is impossible to come to the "start" of time because there has to be something that caused time to start and something to cause that something that caused time to start. and you would have an infinite chain, so its safe to conclude that there has to be something that doesn't follow that law and that something started that chain and didn't have something cause it into being....you get it?

this will take forever lets just stick to whether you believe in heaven or not

Originally Posted by Replekia

you know the law; "edit: This is why religion is a system of belief. Science is based on knowledge, while religion is based on what people truly believe from the bottom of their hearts. It's never a good idea to mix the two as both sides of the debate are strong believers in their viewpoint and neither has a definite answer.

Yeah religion sucks I say. Faith, and having a friendship with Jesus rocks way harder!

Originally Posted by bloodywarz

*sigh* do you even know what prove means: establish the validity of something, as by an example, explanation or experiment; "The experiment demonstrated the instability of the compound"; "The mathematician showed the validity of the conjecture"

so yes science proves to us that earth revolves around the sun, that there is no oxygen in space.

The existence of heaven has not been tested. It has not been proven false. That does not mean that we have to believe in it. It just means that we can't say 'scientifically it doesn't exist'.

how can you prove something that isn't real? "heaven" is something composed of by a human told onto another human, it wasn't based on any facts rather it was said to be told from "God" another statement composed by humans. Thats like me telling you there is a monkey on your Shoulder and that monkey says once you die your going to a place FULL of bananas. how can you possible state that its false. It has not been proven false. That does not mean that we have to believe in it. It just means that we can't say 'scientifically it doesn't exist'.

be we all no thats not real and doesn't exist.

It can be proven false, again, based on human sensory limitations. We sense no monkey, we see no monkey, we smell no monkey, we hear no monkey, we feel no monkey, we taste no monkey, and no machinery has detected the monkey. To us, it doesn't exist. The monkey has a specific time-space orientation - on my shoulder at the time you told me so. And as a result I can 'test' and see if the monkey is there. Do we know where heaven is? No. Can we feel, smell, taste, see and hear it? No. Have we searched for it using appropriate equipment? No. We can't say it doesn't exist as much as we can say it exists.

If you say the monkey is there, but we can't detect it, then this is what I was explaining in my first post. We humans have great limitations with little knowledge. Can you understand or explain how a monkey can go undetected on someone's shoulder? You can't! And using science to explain it is just taking all possible explanations that conform to everything else in existence and applying it to that situation. All explanations are made for humans to understand it. It doesn't mean it's true.

So back to my original point. I'm not saying that heaven exists or doesn't exist. I believe it exists. But you cannot say that, for scientific reasons, it doesn't exist. We don't possess enough knowledge to determine that. As mentioned though, belief is totally different. What you believe doesn't have to be true. The way we perceive our entire universe, and how we believe it functions, all the so-called 'laws' that all bodies of matter and energy conform to, isn't necessarily true. The same way we are rewriting classical physics, rewriting (read: manipulating) history the same way we can rewrite the rules that governs everything we know. You'd say what has been rewritten isn't true anymore. The fact is, it was never true in the first place.


__________________

EDIT:
Essentially, or rather generally what I'm saying it that, people always use science to back up their claims, especially when it comes to fact vs. belief debates. Well the fact is, science is just as much of a belief as religion is. Nothing we know is necessarily true. Just like how spontaneous creation was abandoned, classical physics was rewritten, and so much more was left in the dust (although they were all believed to be true)...just as easily all the 'science' we know can be rewritten as long as it's falsified. So everything we perceive is just a matter of belief and understanding. The mechanics of the universe, the quantum theory, evolution, gravity, everything. It isn't necessarily true.

oh right, I do suppose it would be proper to address the question posed by the opening post myself.

Personally I do not believe in a heaven as I believe that to accept the existence of a heaven one must first accept the existence of a higher power. I do not accept there to be a higher power, based on the following logic: There is evil in the world which present 4 possible scenarios for god

1. God wishes to prevent the evil, but cannot; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
2. God wishes to prevent the evil and has the capability; yet there is evil, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
3. God does not wish to prevent the evil yet has the capability to do so if he wished; in this scenario god is cruel and hateful and unworthy of praise or worship; therefore in this scenario god cannot exist in the context that people accept him and their faith in the love of god is unfounded
4. God does not wish to prevent the evil and is incapable of doing so even if he wished; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist

Originally Posted by Replekia

oh right, I do suppose it would be proper to address the question posed by the opening post myself.

Personally I do not believe in a heaven as I believe that to accept the existence of a heaven one must first accept the existence of a higher power. I do not accept there to be a higher power, based on the following logic: There is evil in the world which present 4 possible scenarios for god

1. God wishes to prevent the evil, but cannot; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
2. God wishes to prevent the evil and has the capability; yet there is evil, showing that god does not act on his own will, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
3. God does not wish to prevent the evil yet has the capability to do so if he wished; in this scenario god is cruel and hateful and unworthy of praise or worship; therefore in this scenario god cannot exist in the context that people accept him and their faith in the love of god in unfounded
4. God does not wish to prevent the evil and is incapable of doing so even if he wished; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist

tl;dr

nice essay bruh

Originally Posted by Joe Budden

tl;dr

nice essay bruh

umm here is the tl:dr version

God either can't exist or is a big jerkface.

I find being thorough makes posting religious views way less susceptible to flaming.

lol only delusioned people believe in heaven

Originally Posted by ReDorkulateD

lol only delusioned people believe in heaven

And why is that? Care to expand.

This may be in bad taste (downvote if you think so) but I found it funny and it seems on topic:

Nope, because I have no idea what's going to happen when we die. And I don't really want to devote my life to something that may or may not happen once I pass away.

Originally Posted by Replekia

oh right, I do suppose it would be proper to address the question posed by the opening post myself.

Personally I do not believe in a heaven as I believe that to accept the existence of a heaven one must first accept the existence of a higher power. I do not accept there to be a higher power, based on the following logic: There is evil in the world which present 4 possible scenarios for god

1. God wishes to prevent the evil, but cannot; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
2. God wishes to prevent the evil and has the capability; yet there is evil, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist
3. God does not wish to prevent the evil yet has the capability to do so if he wished; in this scenario god is cruel and hateful and unworthy of praise or worship; therefore in this scenario god cannot exist in the context that people accept him and their faith in the love of god is unfounded
4. God does not wish to prevent the evil and is incapable of doing so even if he wished; in this case god is not omnipotent and therefore incapable of creating the university, therefore in this scenario god cannot exist

If we are talking about the God of the bible, he gave us free will to make our own choices. God does not desire evil, and has the capability to get rid of it. He sent his Son Jesus to earth to take the penalty for sin, so that whoever chooses God and not evil can get to heaven.

The reason why there still is evil is because humans like it that way.

Originally Posted by jamescw1234

Nope, because I have no idea what's going to happen when we die. And I don't really want to devote my life to something that may or may not happen once I pass away.

Why do you devote yourself to university then? You don't know if you're going to get your degree.