Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

Ok, quite sorry if my post came out as rude or tried to imply that you guys aren't having legitimate problems. The person sitting beside me in lecture today could also get on fine at that point, and it seemed like everyone in my classes had printed lecture notes. From that I assumed that the problem was mostly behind us, and was manageable. If you guys still can't get on, well, that sucks. I'm pretty sure that was only my second post where I said I wasn't having problem, I'm hardly trying to brag about the fact that I've gotten apparently very lucky.

However, I still think the idea of trying to disrupt people who are working to make our education better is thoughtless, especially for a problem that they know exists/existed. They certainly don't want people to not be able to access material, what do you reasonably expect them to do? What is the goal of this?

Personally, I don't think everything is being done that could be done. They had the same problem at the beginning of first term, and it was fixed. Why can't they do the same now? And why wasn't it fixed permanently the first time? I just think the administration/tech support/etc. is being lazy about this.

I know they aren't sitting in their chairs, petting their cats, saying "They can't access their assignments. Gooood. Gooood." But I don't think they're as upset and stressed about it as we are. Sending them emails just lets them know how much we're being screwed over and how frustrating it is for us.

I believe the issue was that when the system was updated with the information for new classes it reverted back to the pre-fix system.

They have already added several patches to try and fix the problems, apparently they aren't working to the desired effect though, if problems still exist. They are working to fix it, although I guess the system of them updating students on the progress through elm is counter-intuitive if many are still having problems.

Originally Posted by A.Marlowe

I believe the issue was that when the system was updated with the information for new classes it reverted back to the pre-fix system.

No, the issue was that ELM used to consist of two modules connected by a third piece of software. Blackboard removed the second module and "joining" software, and this has triggered the problems we are experiencing.

One module was the main system we all see and are used to. The other module was intended for expanding ELM and its capabilities. Many, many schools that use Blackboard's system had problems over the last couple of semesters and Blackboard attributed them to the third "joining" piece of software. This term, Blackboard removed the "joining" software and the second module for everyone, including the schools where it seemed to be finally working. Unfortunately, this has caused more problems (at least for us, although I'd assume for many others as well).

This was all included in an update on ELM early in January - the update is no longer there and I can't find any kind of an archive, but this is the jist of it.

Just a note - Blackboard has a history of being problematic. Things have definitely gone downhill since Blackboard bought out WebCT.

Another note - since the problems are mostly on Blackboard's side ,and less with UTS, I agree that mass emails won't do much. I suspect the University will be doing their best to get things working, but it's mostly on Blackboard (which for those who don't know is a seperate company). I imagine if these problems last for much longer, the university will look for another course management system.

Ah, good to know! I had seemed to recall hearing something closer to what I posted, but I couldn't find it again on ELM. Thanks for giving the actual reason!

Originally Posted by Taunton

No, the issue was that ELM used to consist of two modules connected by a third piece of software. Blackboard removed the second module and "joining" software, and this has triggered the problems we are experiencing.

One module was the main system we all see and are used to. The other module was intended for expanding ELM and its capabilities. Many, many schools that use Blackboard's system had problems over the last couple of semesters and Blackboard attributed them to the third "joining" piece of software. This term, Blackboard removed the "joining" software and the second module for everyone, including the schools where it seemed to be finally working. Unfortunately, this has caused more problems (at least for us, although I'd assume for many others as well).

This was all included in an update on ELM early in January - the update is no longer there and I can't find any kind of an archive, but this is the jist of it.

Just a note - Blackboard has a history of being problematic. Things have definitely gone downhill since Blackboard bought out WebCT.

Another note - since the problems are mostly on Blackboard's side ,and less with UTS, I agree that mass emails won't do much. I suspect the University will be doing their best to get things working, but it's mostly on Blackboard (which for those who don't know is a seperate company). I imagine if these problems last for much longer, the university will look for another course management system.

Maybe people who plan on spamming e-mails should inform themselves on what is being done to fix the situation before doing something stupid. If the university simply didn't care, fine--but that's clearly not the case.

If Mac were a real company, someone (or a few people) would have been fired for this f**k up. Employees at McMaster are protected by antiquated unions that shield people from being held accountable for f**king up constantly. It's ridiculous.

Someone did get fired in the first week, and since then there has been a team of like 10 people working overtime to try to get it working properly.

Taunton is correct, they removed a piece of the software and it has been tweaking out ever since.

The university and professors are well aware of the issues, we all just have to wait until the "storm" of errors is corrected. There there aren't any other actions that are practical in this case.

It just seems very counter-intuitive to launch a system that is unproven, and force 20,000 + students to accept the fact that they cannot have consistent access to their course materials. I am in my 4th year, and I have wasted an obscene amount of time just trying to get to my assignments and readings. It's unacceptable.

Edit: To be fair, ELM is working alright at the moment. But the huge variation and inconsistency is very frustrating.

People need to realize as well that profs are people too, as it's been said the profs know what's going on. They're having problems with ELM just like the students, they understand the frustration.
Like it was mentioned, ELM is a mesh up of Blackboard and another system, blackboard on it's on is a good program, (I used it just last year at school)... but it didn't have all the capabilities that Mac wanted for some of the courses, which is why they decided to put it together with another system, things aren't always perfect, and I believe people are working to figure it out, there are constantly maintenance updates about the work they're doing, and I'm sure the people trying to figure out how to fix the issue are just as frustrated as the students trying to use ELM...

I only have one course on ELM. Yay.

A little inconvieniencing at some times but it hasn't really caused me distress.

Originally Posted by sniderj

It just seems very counter-intuitive to launch a system that is unproven, and force 20,000 + students to accept the fact that they cannot have consistent access to their course materials. I am in my 4th year, and I have wasted an obscene amount of time just trying to get to my assignments and readings. It's unacceptable.

Edit: To be fair, ELM is working alright at the moment. But the huge variation and inconsistency is very frustrating.

I agree with you, but I think the contract with webct was done or overdue or something and they needed something new. I also recall hearing that they did testing ELM with a few courses in the summer but dont quote me on that.

Anyway, its a crappy situation, and there ARE people working to correct it, we just need to be patient.

I hear you on the wasted time complaint. It sucks. A lot.

Originally Posted by rcrw88

I only have one course on ELM. Yay.

A little inconvieniencing at some times but it hasn't really caused me distress.

5 of my 6 courses are on ELM! :(

Isn't it difficult to imagine a time where you had to go to class and take your own notes? I realize that people have become reliant on things like ELM, but come on people. The profs should know that people are having issues and should decrease their own reliance on the technology. If they're not, take it up with them.

Flooding the mailboxes of two people will do absolutely nothing. You think that those two people can actually change anything?

I know it's frustrating, I really do. It's just not really necessary to harass people.

You can also urge your professors to use another system in the meantime. My department has been using Moodle for years and it's fantastic. It has all the same functionalities of ELM plus way more cool stuff. And it doesn't suck! And it's free!

it's not the notes that are so important, it's the assignments that have to be submitted online. granted, we're given enough time to do them in advance...

how much would it cost to switch away from elm? or blackboard? (i don't really know how these things run) like waterloo has angel, which is also owned by blackboard, but it doesn't suck like elm does.