Originally Posted by DavidR

If you see students vandalizing, you should report it to security. Some commerce students vandalized the Iron Ring in front of JHE last year, but we didn't go around calling commerce students douches, nor did we take it personally. I don't see how vandalizing is a faculty related thing. Compare it to the amount of vandalism in KTH washrooms and get back to me.

First year students are also not taught to hate on other faculties. In the past few years there has been a large transition to "pro-eng" rather than "anti-others". While I wasn't present for this year's Welcome Week, as president of the Engineering Society last year I received many comments regarding welcome week actions - only one of which was negative and was related to an incident off campus, not involving students. If there was negativity this year, it should have been reported to the Welcome Week planners who, regardless of what you may think, do take their job seriously.

Regardless of faculty, there's going to be a few bad eggs ruining the dozen. I personally don't see any more problem with Engineering than I do with the other faculties. I recall being told to "build a bridge and jump off it" in my first year from Humanities students. If I took things as seriously as you all seem to, I'd be in trouble.

At the end of the day, faculties aside, we're all students and we're all here to get an education. Forget about associations, focus on the individuals - and it'll all work out in the end.

The vandalism is referring to "ERTW". It's written all over the school. I really doubt other faculties are writing that. My boyfriend attended a bunch of Welcome Week events when he was in first year (he's in fourth year now), and he tells me all the time about how they were taught to bash other faculties and say mean chants along with the red suits. I can't say whether or not that's happening now, but it sure as hell was happening a few years ago.

Of course, if you're in Engineering, you're probably not going to see it that way. It's just difficult to focus on individuals instead of associations when so many individuals make their associations look so bad.

Maybe I'm too sensitive, I don't know. I'm sure most students haven't had to deal with the crap I've had to deal with, because dating an Engineer means I have to be around Engineers a lot. I just don't think this is something everyone should ignore. This kind of stuff, clearly, doesn't go away. And I don't think people should have to feel bad for talking about it.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

Some people have said unpleasant things, but most of the posts are about how SOME engineers take the traditions too far and how SOME engineers are douches.

...

Some people could be a little nicer with their words, of course, but that doesn't mean no one has a right to talk about why they are unhappy with some other students' actions.

When I first read this topic, all of it just sounded like "olololol engineers are stupid douchebags." You and various others have been very reasonable, and I'm glad for that, but it's still off-putting that so many think that having a jacket equals being a jerk. All the people I know with one are super sweet, and I'm kind of offended that they're being lumped into the overzealous and obnoxious crowd of loudmouths (they really are annoying, but I see them less often considering I'm mostly with engineers - they must stick out a lot more if you're in a different faculty...).

I think some are even equating jackets with redsuits, from all the Welcome Week comments, which contributes to all this negativity... somehow. Last year, my first year, I don't ever recall being told to hate this faculty or that faculty - I was told to have fun, cheer, and meet new people.

chemistry 1e03 and 1a03 are combined classes. okay enough of the jacket. the point is that SOME engineers are idoits for what they do and we want some respect.

Is Chem 1E03 and 1A03 being combined classes a new thing? I for sure know last year they were separate. We did learn pretty much the same thing (albeit much easier in 1E03), but we still had different profs and labs.

The master timetable shows no indication that 1A03 and 1E03 are combined in any way, shape, or form. Lectures at different times with different profs, each has their labs in different rooms, and there are no tutorials in 1E03 whatsoever.

On-(the current)-topic: I really didn't think people took the whole faculty rivalry thing seriously after Welcome Week. Yeah, some of the cheers are a little obnoxious, but they're all taken in jest. Plus, it's not like artsies don't have cheers that attack us.

About the graffiti: yes, there are some tracings of ERTW in the maze of the TSH/KTH/CNH/MUSC basements. But there are always the overzealous types who do that. I think if it were as bad as most of this thread is making it seem, then it'd be a lot worse.

And yes, people make occasional jokes about artsies being dumb, but I don't think anyone's ever offended by them. They're no worse than the "Engineers never get girls" jokes that I'm sure go around in the Arts quad.

I think I'm a little late to the party on this front, but it's probably worth getting a say in: do people actually still make assumptions about people based on what they wear? I thought we were supposed to get over that once high school ended. Assuming engineers are *******s because of their jackets is pretty much equivalent to saying people who wear Abercrombie or Banana Republic are are preppy idiots who came to Mac on a football scholarship, or that people who wear Old Navy are poor. A lot of stereotypes are based on truth to some degree, but really, who cares anymore?

People wear what they wear because they like it. Let them. If someone who happens to be wearing an Eng jacket does something stupid, then that's no reason to generalize an entire faculty.

Unrelated other question: I ordered one of those windbreakers earlier in the year; any word on when those are coming? Or whether alterations are possible? I declined to put my name on mine, but I changed my mind and sort want it there now.

edit: lol, autofilter

I just saw someone with a Chem and Bio jacket that was properly fitted. It looked pretty good.

The Jackets, like our jumpsuits (before the other faculties at Mac started doing the same) are a tradition at engineering schools across Ontario. Mayhaps even across Canada, but I haven't seen enough other schools to be sure. They go back decades, to the time when Tom Selleck moustaches abounded.

Anyways, this is your friendly neighborhood Drain Coordinator here. Sorry for the lack of communications, the MES mail server is sitting in storage somewhere while renovations take place in the BLUE Lounge. Anyways, I'll be sitting in the JHE lobby this week giving out jackets. Make sure to bring the remainder of your deposit with you, I can't give you the jacket unless I have it.

As for the hoodies and windbreakers, they will be in, I just don't know when. Haven't heard from our supplier there yet, but they're due.

Again, sorry if you emailed me and I didn't respond.

Originally Posted by ViktorVaughn

I'm in engineering and I think engineering jackets are lame. They do however act as a convenient label for identifying people in engineering who you don't want to associate with. The people who wear them are often the types who embody the traits that most people dislike about engineering students, including most other engineering students.

Good grief, just wait till you get your iron ring.

Iron Ring = earned, Eng jacket = bought.

But, you see, I was reluctant to get one myself, by my parents want to buy me one as a "souvenir" of McMaster. Please don't judge me because of my coat, I think I'm a nice enough person.

Originally Posted by AixAthanatos

Anyways, I'll be sitting in the JHE lobby this week giving out jackets.

What time are you gonna be there?

I got an jacket.

why?
1. McMaster paid for it
2. To wear it at uft and say bam, McMaster Engineering is here.
3. If I put the number 80 on my jacket, it spells out my name :O
4. You only live once

As an aside... I am sick of engineering students (and I am one) calling themselves engineers. They of all people should know that it is completely immoral to call themselves engineers. Health Sci students aren't doctors and engineering students are just that, engineering students. Even when you graduate, you may only be an Engineer in Training. Come back when you have your p.eng and then you can call yourself an engineer but some kid who thinks just because he made it through one year of an engineering program gives him the right to call himself an engineer is rediculous.

I think it's more that we're all kinda lazy and call ourselves by our faculties. Health scis are called just that - they don't refer to themselves as health science students. Same with life scis, art scis... mostly the scis. Engineering student is just a mouthful. Besides, other people call us that too.

Though if you wanted to discuss this, maybe you should create another topic for it? This is still about the leather jackets, after all.

Ha ha the funny thing is there are a few jobs that are allowed to use the term "engineer" without being an engineer. Sound engineer is one of them and I have been doing that since I was 14, so I can use the term, hahaha suckers. I knew a P. Eng when I was 15 and it always pissed him off that I could use the term he worked like 10 years for. Of course people knew I wasnt a P. Eng, I play with microphones not bridges, and I had to always say sound engineer, not just engineer, but whatever.

Funny, that. My ex-girlfriend called me "doctor" and I called her "nurse" when we did the nasty... It also involved using a thermometer!
Turns out, there are other places to check one's temperature.

Doctor fantasy? ... so pedestrian.