I definitely agree with the 3 points. I was one of those people that didn't ask teachers either, especially with math, I guess it was over-confidence like you said. But in grade 12, there was no way of running from it, and it makes a really big difference!
I really like your 2 options about test prep as well. Option 2 is probably much betetr than 1, but because of time constraint, I think everyone would be just as grateful with having tests to take home, I know I would be at least. I got to see the effect of practice first hand, and how horrible you can do even if you're good at math, and you get the concepts. there's just no way of going around it.

Sinthu and Sara: There are almost always practice tests posted in first year classes. I'll try my best to arrange something with the department regarding practice test sessions. (And I'll supervise/coordinate them if necessary (: )

The main reason is your brain will force itself to forget everything once a test, exam is done or summer starts. Therefore, by the time you go back to do the math, everything becomes new and challenging.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

Sinthu: Would practice tests help? And I mean either practice as in:

Option 1) I give you a test to take home, with solutions, and you write it yourself, on your own time, OR:
Option 2) I hold a practice test that students can come and write in a silent environment with no notes, for an hour like 2 days before the real test

(I'm willing to do that if it will help students gain the necessary confidence)

I found my best attempts at studying math, and the method I use now, were doing the suggested problems myself with TA assistance, do one sample test with full time limit, go over it with a TA, and then do the second test with a reduced time (if the test was 75 min, I gave myself 60). Could be just me though.

Originally Posted by BlakeM

I found my best attempts at studying math, and the method I use now, were doing the suggested problems myself with TA assistance, do one sample test with full time limit, go over it with a TA, and then do the second test with a reduced time (if the test was 75 min, I gave myself 60). Could be just me though.

That's an awesome idea ! Were the sample tests provided in the tutorial section? Also, was your TA able to go through the whole thing with you, in terms of time?

PS- awesome signature, haha .

I think most students fail at the basics. I see kids relying way too much on calculators and things.

If you're studying university math (and don't be offended) you should have learned that stuff by now. Timetables, long division, angles, fractions, y=mx+b... Those are the fundamentals.

With that said, it's never too late to brush up on those basics. University is about applying concepts and if you know your basics, math should be second nature to you.

Originally Posted by ~*Sara*~

That's an awesome idea ! Were the sample tests provided in the tutorial section? Also, was your TA able to go through the whole thing with you, in terms of time?

PS- awesome signature, haha .

For my math, 1Z04 and 1ZZ5, all sample tests were provided online, along with the suggested problems. The T.A.s i usually asked for help on questions I didn't get, or needed clarification on. Plus, the math help centre is AWESOME, THE tool for success(in math!)

;__; In first year, one girl didn't know what a y-axis was.

The most important thing is a solid foundation. High school math was more difficult than first year university math, imo.

Originally Posted by jesus

;__; In first year, one girl didn't know what a y-axis was.

The most important thing is a solid foundation. High school math was more difficult than first year university math, imo.

Maybe she was thinking about the x vs imaginary axis.

I think when you first start classes they assume you know a bit to much. I had nearly forgotten all my trigonometric angles, properties and rules. Also, some people were taught differently at different schools, for instance I never learned the quotient rule.

I definitely agree with you on the resources. I never asked a professor for help until the end of the second term, they just seem so important and busy when in fact they would LOVE to help you, they purposely have office hours just to help students. The math help center is great and the review sessions they offer are pretty good, although it depends on the TA from my experiences.

I remember the first math test was a killer shock. I felt math was my strongest point and I had done ALL the suggested problems up till the test (terrible timesink looking back at it now). Finally when the test came I believe I got a 57%!

From my experiences this is how to prepare best for the tests:
Get together with some reliable friends or fellow students and tackle the sample tests. They are easily the best way to study. Do your best and with the questions you get stuck on, go to the math help centre or the review sessions and get the solution or clarification. If you can do all the sample test questions I think you stand a very good chance against the test.

However with all that said, the engineering averages are all around 50-60%, not just for math classes. I think its simply a matter of time management, balancing everything properly. I made another post in this thread a while back, http://www.macinsiders.com/showthrea...7 0#post49770
which expresses my thoughts more clearly. Reading over the post again I sound like a huge ass I'm not sure why!

Really, all engineers are good at math. You had to get atleast low 80s in Functions or Calculus in highschool just to get here, so we're definitely strong in math. Myself and most others were walking out of highschool with 90s.

In 1Z04, the first calc course you take, the averages on the test were practically 50-60%. I got 60s on the first two tests and I was pretty surprised because I figured math was one of my strongest traits and of course in highschool, I was used to getting 90+. However after trying harder and most importantly, managing my time better, I got a 90 on the next test and must've got practically perfect on the exam (they don't release exam marks) because I got a 10 in the course (low 80ish). The exam and tests encompass most of your marks, but theres also math labs which are almost freebies.

1ZZ5 was the next calc course and the averages were better, around 65-75%. The marks were higher probably because people were more prepared, the content was a bit easier, and the majority of people who failed 1Z04 didnt get into 1ZZ5. I felt 1ZZ5 had easier content, just a lot more and in more variety. Of course, this variety made the exam pretty terrifying but if you study hard enough you'll be fine. I might get myself a 12 in the course (90ish) which is ironic considering I was getting such low marks in the previous term.


The content in 1Z04 was pretty easy now that I think about it, except the very final chapters. The reason people did so bad, myself included, was because they simply werent ready for such tests. Your going to be balancing 6 courses, with tests in each one all falling in the same time period. Youre going to get caught off guard on how much you need to study in such a short span of time. I remember the first month i kept up in homework but had to fall behind to study and then there was no catching up. I also felt since I was so good at math initially i might be able to "wing it" or figure out questions by myself, which is slightly true, but that only goes so far and wont save your ass by any means.

The bottom line is once you learn to manage your time, you'll be doing fine. I remember one week in 2nd term, we had atleast one assignment per class ( so 6-8 assignments) all due the same day,along with 2 or 3 tests, depending if you had macroeconomics as an elective, that same week. That was probably the most difficult week ever and if you dont manage your time your gonna fail across the board.

I think doing poorly in first year math also has to do with study habits. For example: In highschool, a student may learn the test material a day or two before and do well and take that mentality to University with the belief that they will get the same results. They then realize there's more course material to cover and they cant cram it as efficiently as a highschool course load.

Of course I have yet to experience this since I'm going into my first year, but that was just my two cents on the topic.

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Maybe she was thinking about the x vs imaginary axis.

lol love it.

Though I can't seem to resist correcting that it's actually the real vs imaginary axis.

I did "poorly" in math for 3 reasons. By poorly, I mean I didn't do as well as I hoped.

1) Perhaps it was just my professor, but I found that the examples he used in class barely compared to the ones I saw on the midterms and exam. They were so much more complex, and we were never even shown how to do it once.

2) Literally, I did all the questions in the textbook and went to every class, but on two midterms I completely blanked. Just completely forgot everything. So I guess being too cocky was my problem.

3) I was one of those people that TRIED staying after class to ask a question, but never got the chance. Either someone got to my professor first and by the time they finished up, I had to rush to class in order to not be late, or I had class during the professor's office hours and never got to ask them on a later date.

I also didn't find out about the math help centre till like half way through the course, and I just feel stupid going over there for help with one concept.

^^Are you taking Math 2A03 by any chance Cheri? (I noticed you're doing a Math Minor)

1) In regards to asking the professor questions after class, this usually isn't the best way to approach things...mostly because as you said, someone will likely 'beat you to them.'

The most effective way is to find time to see the professor in his or her office during their office hours...or if you don't mind speaking with a TA, you can bring up the problems in tutorial, or during the TA's office hours.

2) About the Math Help Center: Definitely bring your problems! Even if you feel like it's silly, or only one concept, people are glad to help, and a lot of times just sit there bored, so make sure you make good use of the resource!

(Mac pays good money to have overpriced TAs like me there round the clock (: )

Originally Posted by Mowicz

^^Are you taking Math 2A03 by any chance Cheri? (I noticed you're doing a Math Minor)

1) In regards to asking the professor questions after class, this usually isn't the best way to approach things...mostly because as you said, someone will likely 'beat you to them.'

The most effective way is to find time to see the professor in his or her office during their office hours...or if you don't mind speaking with a TA, you can bring up the problems in tutorial, or during the TA's office hours.

2) About the Math Help Center: Definitely bring your problems! Even if you feel like it's silly, or only one concept, people are glad to help, and a lot of times just sit there bored, so make sure you make good use of the resource!

(Mac pays good money to have overpriced TAs like me there round the clock (: )

Nope Mike, I'm only taking Math 1A03 this year since I decided to do work on a minor this year. I'm planning on taking 1AA3 and 1B03 in the summer, and I'll probably take 2 more courses in the summer to open up some more room for electives.

My T.A was ... ditzy. I didn't like her. XD

And I dunno, all of my questions are mostly, "Why?" It's always like, hypothetical questions that really don't shed any light on the course material, I'm just really curious. And I always feel like that's not what they're there for.