Erm...just a note that a Harvard education costs about $100,000 a year...so $10,000 seems a little dreamy compared to that.

Originally Posted by Zebedee

Erm...just a note that a Harvard education costs about $100,000 a year...so $10,000 seems a little dreamy compared to that.

what????

This isn't even Harvard, so I'm not going to compare Harvard tuition to Mac.....

I don't even ...

Originally Posted by Zebedee

Erm...just a note that a Harvard education costs about $100,000 a year...so $10,000 seems a little dreamy compared to that.

how does that relate to the topic in any way...

Originally Posted by mike_302

And this IS the equivalent to poo-shoved-in-the-face: That $4,000-$10,000 tuition you pay every year doesn't go unnoticed by a single one of you. Yet only the tiniest fraction ever asked "Why this much?"

"Critical thought" is a long-endangered species.

Err...at the risk of sounding incredibly stupid, I wasn't aware any of the tuition went to the MSU. In our supplementary fees there is a (rather significant) portion that does, obviously...but tuition? Really? Why are they taking money from tuition rather than supp fees? And how is that fair for part-time students who aren't part of the MSU? Everybody in a given faculty pays the same tuition per course regardless of whether or not they're part of the MSU.

Considering how irrelevant the MSU is, it's astonishing they get paid that much.

On a separate rant: MSU hardly represents the students they claim to. Refusing to allow co-op students to pay in to get the health & dental plan? Pathetic.

Originally Posted by starfish

Err...at the risk of sounding incredibly stupid, I wasn't aware any of the tuition went to the MSU. In our supplementary fees there is a (rather significant) portion that does, obviously...but tuition? Really? Why are they taking money from tuition rather than supp fees? And how is that fair for part-time students who aren't part of the MSU? Everybody in a given faculty pays the same tuition per course regardless of whether or not they're part of the MSU.

"Tuition", "supplementary fees", "MSU membership", it's all in the same lump sum that we categorize as the same, and complain about every single year... That's my point: Every just pays this lump sum, complains about it, but has no clue what t goes to! And very very few of us ever ask...

Originally Posted by mike_302

what????

This isn't even Harvard, so I'm not going to compare Harvard tuition to Mac.....

I don't even ...

In response to the post (I think from mike 302) that said hardly anyone asks why is Mac tuition so much. Truth is, yes, it is a lot, for us, but not compared to other major institutions around the world. Harvard, for starters, but also places like Johns Hopkins, Columbia, UCLA (actually, that's probably a little cheaper).
And, no, Mac isn't Harvard, but Harvard is copying Mac's PBL and other systems, so there might be some comparison there...

Originally Posted by mike_302

"Tuition", "supplementary fees", "MSU membership", it's all in the same lump sum that we categorize as the same, and complain about every single year... That's my point: Every just pays this lump sum, complains about it, but has no clue what t goes to! And very very few of us ever ask...

It's not all the same though. Tuition refers to money paid for courses. When I complain about the cost of tuition, that is what I'm referring to. Supplementary fees are something else entirely. Just because you pay for it all at once, that doesn't make them the same thing.

So, none of my tuition money is actually going to the MSU, correct? Only a portion of my supp fees.

... Correct, your "tuition" goes to the school. But once more (and for the final time), I'm referring to the lump sum of money that everyone complains about, and ignores the the details on.

If you pay $4,000 to the school, a decent chunk of that goes to the MSU. Decent enough that you should probably (read: definitely) be aware of what that is going to... I'm not sure how much clearer I can get about my point.

I still don't see why American schools are being brought into the discussion on where MSU fees are going, or the ignorance of the majority of the population regarding where their money is going... It's a completely far-fetched topic to head to.

i find it amazing that there are so many people in the school that were unaware of these things. I bet you are all the types of people of sign off on bills without reading them.

BTW...i have these magic beans for sale...

Originally Posted by chappy89

i find it amazing that there are so many people in the school that were unaware of these things. I bet you are all the types of people of sign off on bills without reading them.

BTW...i have these magic beans for sale...

'Nuff Said.

Originally Posted by BlakeM

I'm just wondering, why do you define that as fair? If I were to get a job as a general laborer for 15$, am I being over paid? How about if you were the head of an organization that employs over 36 full time, and 200 part time? What if that included many small business units? Would that be over paid?

Most students who are going to leave our University after their undergrad that go in to the workforce are not going to be making $15/hour right away let alone $19/hour. There will be a lucky bunch that happen to make far more than that but during our first year or two it's expected to be pretty low considering it's hard to find jobs in many fields. Now, turning this in to a "Well, my degree will get me x amount of money" is not a discussion I feel like starting right now so I hesitated replying. My point is why are we paying huge amounts to pay the exec $19/hour when it is likely that most of them won't make that amount right away once they graduate AND most of us also won't make that amount right away when we graduate. That's my problem with it. I'm sure I'll get comments about how the President is technically a CEO and that may be true but there is no absolute power with the job.

I feel like it's important for me to clarify that I believe these positions are all needed. I respect the job of the President and the VPs as well as they themselves. I just do not believe that the salary should be this high.

Long and short of it, the President is a corporate manager.

Let's make the President job equal to minimum wage (what many people get out of University, except from Professional programs) and then see what quality of applicants we get for it.

Opportunity cost: If I were a smart student that would do a really good job at the Presidential position, I'll be DAMNED if I ever ran for the position, because I would be losing the potential for a lot of money. So now that the job's wage is lowered, you get poorer quality applicants.

You can tell me that's just a theory, and I can't say any of that for sure, but then you are just ignoring reality: Most corporations have a policy (like our government, as I already said) that defines the minimum amount of money that certain positions must be offered, so that high quality applicants are not turned off.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Long and short of it, the President is a corporate manager.

Let's make the President job equal to minimum wage (what many people get out of University, except from Professional programs) and then see what quality of applicants we get for it.

Opportunity cost: If I were a smart student that would do a really good job at the Presidential position, I'll be DAMNED if I ever ran for the position, because I would be losing the potential for a lot of money. So now that the job's wage is lowered, you get poorer quality applicants.

You can tell me that's just a theory, and I can't say any of that for sure, but then you are just ignoring reality: Most corporations have a policy (like our government, as I already said) that defines the minimum amount of money that certain positions must be offered, so that high quality applicants are not turned off.

I certainly agree that the job should not be minimum wage, I never said that. But I truly think it should be closer to $15/hour. When I compare it to other MSU positions that make max $11.40, if I remember correctly, there's a huge diference right now. And yes, it's a full-time job and they work their booties off but $19 just seems outrageous.

Whatever you want to think. $40,000 is not that much for a corporate manager to make. IF you want to think that knocking off $10,000 will improve the system, by all means fight for it. You'll have essentially eliminated most of the intelligent people from ever wanting to be MSU President (not saying there's been a lot in the running in the past anyways) because anyone that is potentially successful has FAR better opportunities awaiting them.