Oh boy.

To be honest I've found some of the posts here bizarre and factually incorrect by a margin. Having been a successful candidate on the SRA Social Sciences caucus I guess I've also earnt the right to say that I find the platform point and Slogans on VP Salaries (which is actually the headline for another thread) incredibly odd since I don't really see how that is the biggest thing that will productively improve student life. To see some of the things I ran on (which I believe helped me succeed) you can take a look here: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthrea...=huzaifa+saeed

I guess some of it comes down to many students not understanding the massive depth of the MSU as an organization in terms of the 35 Services and full on small businesses it runs, over 40 full time staff it employs with several hundred part time staff and over a 1000 volunteers. Indeed those that were on MacInsiders circa 2009 would remember my long rants on that topic, however we have come a long way from that and now we have a very active Social Media Presence (Twitter + FB) and website which can provide a very transparent picture of our activities. So to be blunt I don't really buy the statement that the "MSU is a joke, I don't know what they do all day" etc since we are doing our utmost to enhance communication and the onus is also on yourselves as a fee paying member to follow our avenues, yet just like every year I have members running the same old "MSU sucks at Communication and I'm going to fix this" point when there definitely are bigger fish to fry.

For example in response to the point that was mentioned where someone expressed confusion on what is it that I do all day, you can easily browse your way over to my MSU website page to see tons of information, a link to my full platform as well as my reports to the Assembly here: https://www.msumcmaster.ca/governanc...3/vp-education

I don't really know where the $20 an hour is also coming from, I currently get $1140 (A bit less even since I have RESP setup) every two weeks since income tax is heavily deducted from the base salary, which makes it $14.25ish I get to live on.

In terms of working hours, while we get paid for 40 most of us usually work way more then that since in order to reach this high a rung of the ladder in the MSU usually the executive are the most resilient and committed bunch who want to prove a point in a year. For that reason I am also in favor of the SRA electing the VP's since it's not much of a popularity contest that way and it's not about who has the most stacked team of student leaders, welcome week reps, best video or poster; it usually comes down to prior experience and platform ideas. In order to be a surefire successful candidate for VP elections one usually has to spend 2-3 years volunteering on the SRA or as a 5-10 a week part time manager, which is what I did between March 2009-April 2012 relentlessly creating successful projects that had a tangible impact on student life (eg: the Gmail project, various surveys and policy stuff, the new MUGSI/SOLAR etc). All those years of highly underpaid sweat work allowed me to prove to the SRA last April that I can accomplish this job.

I can safely say that over the past year I've worked close to 60-70 hours a week since it is rather difficult to manage the never ending meetings one has to attend at the MSU and University level (Yay Bureaucracy), travel and conferences, supervising 5-6 staff each (close to 25 in the case of the VP Admin) and on top of that completing your platform. The MSU recently conducted an HR review using an outside consultant firm and they utilized industry calculators on our various jobs, if one were to run a similar analysis for the Board positions our salaries would actually notch upto $100,000 + (even when education requirements is taken into consideration) given the scope of operations. Most of the Exec leave these positions scarred by the stress, heavy workload, taking the work home with them (compared to say a hands on job) due to the political nature, the hundreds of people involved, the constant feeling of "you're not doing enough" and well as you can see a membership of 20,000 questioning the very existence of my job on a public forum

Similarly, another point was made that "if the MSU board wasn't elected to these positions..out in the real world we would be making much less then that"; I would love to see what evidence they have for such a point.
Over the years we've lost many potential VP Finance candidates who have gotten offers of $80,000-100,000 for various finance and accounting jobs in the banking sector. For others this means delaying graduate school and undergraduate studies, for example I'm losing a great candidate for my role because he has applied to Medical School which doesn't allow one to defer admission. For those on OSAP their interest begins to kick in if they take a random year off school, same with their eligibility. Lastly, the candidates who end up qualifying for these positions usually have enough applied extra curricular experience to enhance their employ-ability in the market in comparison to many who've gone through McMaster without getting involved or improving their applied skills. $34-35k is barely the starting salary in the non profit sector positions with much less responsibilities so I'd say this is all definitely in line.

The MSU didn't lose money either since we've turned the ship around on a few deficits we had towards a $937,000 surplus (http://www.thesil.ca/msu-makes-record-surplus); and no we didn't give ourselves a raise either...MSU full time Salaries go up by Consumer Price Index every year which is standard and if one looks at it a certain way isn't really an increase since it's going up by price of living. If you so aspire to be in a political position like the SRA, I'll warn you that such inaccuracies are strongly put down by your fellow SRA members (as I can speak from experience).

I was hoping everyone would have thought all of these things through before this turning into a dangerous hive mind.

Lastly, feel free to read the State of the Union document to see the full snapshot of the organization and how it's not just a club that can be run by volunteers https://msu-production.s3.amazona w...ion_2013V2.pdf

As always, Eric you were always more then welcome to email any of us with your comments and concerns; to my understanding you haven't at all, this goes for anyone else who ever has a query about the MSU...we are more then happy to answer them rather then stumble upon such threads.

I promise I'm done after this one! According to most community standards the living wage in Hamilton is $14.95 for 2011 (Source: http://livingwagehamilton.ca /wp/?page_id=5) ((A bit higher for 2013 by CPI)) aka anyone below it can be categorized as living in poverty. I currently technically make less then that number per week so I'm not sure how someone suggested an arbitrary $10,000 a year amount for these jobs :S

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Oh boy.

To be honest I've found some of the posts here bizarre and factually incorrect by a margin. Having been a successful candidate on the SRA Social Sciences caucus I guess I've also earnt the right to say that I find the platform point and Slogans on VP Salaries (which is actually the headline for another thread) incredibly odd since I don't really see how that is the biggest thing that will productively improve student life.

While I can understand why you're on the defensive, being that I'm targeting a position you hold with my campaign, understand I do not mean to criticize directly the work you've done, nor is it my intention to make you feel I undervalue it, or that I am criticizing your dedication.

I am not.

That said, we disagree on a few things, most direly your position being an elected one.

no we didn't give ourselves a raise either...MSU full time Salaries go up by Consumer Price Index every year which is standard and if one looks at it a certain way isn't really an increase since it's going up by price of living. If you so aspire to be in a political position like the SRA, I'll warn you that such inaccuracies are strongly put down by your fellow SRA members (as I can speak from experience).

Seeing as the article on The Sil is down now, I had to use an archive, but it definitely happened. Sources: here and here Please don't accuse me of being inaccurate when it's public record otherwise. Unless you have a source refuting my two, I would ask you to revoke your claim.

I don't really know where the $20 an hour is also coming from, I currently get $1140 (A bit less even since I have RESP setup) every two weeks since income tax is heavily deducted from the base salary, which makes it $14.25ish I get to live on.

the previously stated ~$20/hour is for the President's salary, including the stated value of their benefits. Foregoing that confusion on your part: everyone has taxes imposed on salaries, it doesn't change the stated salary, nor does having savings in the form of having an RESP set up for yourself. You saving some of your money doesn't make your total given salary lower.

As always, Eric you were always more then welcome to email any of us with your comments and concerns

Somehow I don't think emailing you informing you I felt you should be elected to your position and that I don't feel the student community is aware that you're being paid so much to fulfil a position that is not directly elected by students would've accomplished all that much, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. Even if that's the case-- I feel my aspirations to be far beyond the scope of simply emailing you.

$34-35k is barely the starting salary in the non profit sector positions with much less responsibilities so I'd say this is all definitely in line.

Considering such positions require years of experience prior, do you not agree it would only make sense that our executive is paid substantially lower since they lack such experience?

The onus is also on yourselves as a fee paying member to follow our avenues... yet just like every year I have members running the same old "MSU sucks at Communication and I'm going to fix this" point when there definitely are bigger fish to fry.

There's no new minutes posted for SRA meetings past January 6th. I find this out the hard way because I intended on quoting you from the February 24th livestream you're heralding in this reply-- but I don't intend on going through the whole thing to find the part I'm looking for. how can I keep informed of your apparently very-transparent avenues when I can't get access to recent minutes on the website?

Hey Eric,

The article you've linked regarding wage increases is from back in 2008/09, when the wages were "corrected" to reflect CPI increases or so I remember reading as a first year student. Yet, the postings I've read so far seem to indicate this all happened this past year when no one currently involved on the MSU was in power when those decisions happened.

The minutes up and until the last meeting and supporting reports documentation are all here just one tab away from where you are looking: https://www.msumcmaster.ca/governance/sra/sra-documents there is a process involved with minutes where they have to go through the SRA and staff member to ensure they are accurate since the room and distance from the recording secretary makes it difficult to get an accurate reflection. Once the minutes are finally approved the Admin Assistant usually updates the minutes section soon after. Secondly, the minutes are just a small portion of what we do.

And no those $34-35 salaries I mentioned were for entry level positions and not those requiring 5 years of experience, Indeed I myself was offered slightly higher wages in a few external positions I applied for last year had I chosen to to not run for VP.

I'm not also sure what you mean by "A position that isn't related to students".

Originally Posted by Grover

Hey Eric.

I'm curious what your platform means in regards to transparency. Transparency typically implies operating in such a manner so as to make it easier for others to see what has transpired. Your claim is that there is transparency lacking on account of the majority of students not knowing that the president of the Students Union makes a yearly salary of over 30k. Yet, you cited the operating policy of the MSU as a direct source in the above post. It's there and available to anyone, student or not.

Meetings for the SRA are open to anyone (they're even streamed live online if you can't be there in person). Any SRA member will candidly tell you what they make as I've asked some today. So my question is: do you think this is truly an issue of transparency or a collective unawareness on behalf of the student body concerning its government? Because they're two separate issues.

Hey Chad,

There is a thread meant for questions specifically meant for my platform, and I don't want to derail this one with that (even if it is perhaps as a result of a point of my platform).

That said, I'll answer this one here but refrain from doing so again in respects to the author of the topic.

When I say I want transparency, I mean things exactly like the salary, and I feel that while unawareness on behalf of the student body is definitely an issue, that they're intrinsically linked together,

It's hard to claim the MSU is an open and transparent body when it is able to have circumstances where students find themselves shocked to hear their President and VP's are being paid. Most people I talk to thought they were volunteer positions. The reality is, we're a student union. We don't need to have things like this hidden behind bylaws and policies. Sure, they're necessary, but there's no reason we can't have a public-friendly version available that is easily readable and not in a bunch of .PDFs strewn across the MSU website. While a lot of people on the executive and the SRA may enjoy the political feel this has to it, we need to realize most don't. That means cutting down on legalese and the hiding of salaries and the true nature of jobs behind it for starters. It's a starting point. We can blame an uninformed student body all we like-- but it seems to me there's a lot of barriers to entry to learning this kind of information and that we're not engaging the interest of the students we're supposed to represent-- and it doesn't seem like we're working to resolve that. That, to me, isn't transparent.

I genuinely appreciate the response.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

I'm not also sure what you mean by "A position that isn't related to students".

Sorry, I meant "A position that isn't directly elected by students". In my defence, we're both up far later than we should be on a Sunday night.

As for the Minutes, understandable-- but I feel it would make more sense (and this is going back to my response to Chad now) to most people to have them listed under minutes and perhaps have *PRELIMINARY or *DRAFT beside them to indicate they are still subject to due process, rather than under a tab most I assume would not of otherwise thought to of checked.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

Hey Chad,

There is a thread meant for questions specifically meant for my platform, and I don't want to derail this one with that (even if it is perhaps as a result of a point of my platform).

That said, I'll answer this one here but refrain from doing so again in respects to the author of the topic.

Translation = Chad you clearly don't understand Macinsiders etiquette.

Fun Fact, Chad created Macinsiders.

Originally Posted by MD-L

Translation = Chad you clearly don't understand Macinsiders etiquette.

Fun Fact, Chad created Macinsiders.

For lack of a better response: LOL.
Not my intention to be rude, I've just frequented a lot of forums and know it to be generally improper etiquette to derail threads.
Fun fact oh-so-very noted.

Originally Posted by MD-L

Translation = Chad you clearly don't understand Macinsiders etiquette.

Fun Fact, Chad created Macinsiders.

Wrong Chad......

Haha wayy to troll the troll sarah!!!

Originally Posted by Chris23

Haha wayy to troll the troll sarah!!!

How does that even considered as trolling . .



skdak dsjkabdkjaskdhdka

Originally Posted by mohammyt

How does that even considered as trolling . .



skdak dsjkabdkjaskdhdka

How IS that even considered trolling . . **

Originally Posted by MD-L

Translation = Chad you clearly don't understand Macinsiders etiquette.

Fun Fact, Chad created Macinsiders.

Originally Posted by sarahsullz

Wrong Chad......

Oh, presidential burn!

Just get a job after uni and make more. MSU gold leafing is kind of a waste of time tbh. This kind of money isn't even tall.. cmon. It's just a hair more than minimum wage

$0.02

As someone who works a minimum wage job(like many other students), I hardly feel that what is essentially twice my rate of pay is "a hair over minimum wage". And from what I've been able to gauge from fellow students, most wholeheartedly agree with me on this.

The executive positions are jobs that exist to serve students, and yet most students weren't even aware that they were paying them that much to do it-- in a lot of cases that we were paying them at all-- and now there are people defending it by trying to tell say how minimal it is. I welcome those people to please tell that to the majority of working students in this school, hell in this country, that make well under that salary how very minimal a $40,000 salary is. I don't think you'll find too much agreement. And if it is so very minimal I find it odd that when I'm giving speeches to fellow students that I consistently hear expressions of shock from fellow students about it. Maybe to a select few it is a minimal pay, but the reality is to most it's really not.

Furthermore, to address the defence of the VPs being elected by SRA members so it's "less of a popularity contest"-- that logic is flawed. It simply makes it a smaller, more targeted popularity contest. That's got to change, and that means focusing on re-engaging with our student community. We can't be complacent with such abysmal voter turnouts, "mere" Student Union or not. To me, I see the path to that as being one of sincere reform.

Finally, what exact fish to fry do you have that are bigger and more important than engaging the members of this student union? In my opinion this should be the most key and primary goal of a student union.