Originally Posted by Eric_G

As someone who works a minimum wage job(like many other students), I hardly feel that what is essentially twice my rate of pay is "a hair over minimum wage". And from what I've been able to gauge from fellow students, most wholeheartedly agree with me on this.

The executive positions are jobs that exist to serve students, and yet most students weren't even aware that they were paying them that much to do it-- in a lot of cases that we were paying them at all-- and now there are people defending it by trying to tell say how minimal it is. I welcome those people to please tell that to the majority of working students in this school, hell in this country, that make well under that salary how very minimal a $40,000 salary is. I don't think you'll find too much agreement. And if it is so very minimal I find it odd that when I'm giving speeches to fellow students that I consistently hear expressions of shock from fellow students about it. Maybe to a select few it is a minimal pay, but the reality is to most it's really not.

Furthermore, to address the defence of the VPs being elected by SRA members so it's "less of a popularity contest"-- that logic is flawed. It simply makes it a smaller, more targeted popularity contest. That's got to change, and that means focusing on re-engaging with our student community. We can't be complacent with such abysmal voter turnouts, "mere" Student Union or not. To me, I see the path to that as being one of sincere reform.

I worked at minimum wage for years before I got my internship. I make about 40k a year at said internship. I have no direct reports. I am responsible for few things. I am simply doing product development. I know many other interns who earn more and a few who earn less. None of them are managers in any way, and none have incredible responsibilities. Compared to being the president of the MSU, I would say I have it far easier. To me, earning my income with vastly greater responsibility and a far greater workload should be indicative of a wage well earned.

You keep bringing in the fact that you earn minimum wage. That you are a student. The president is not. They are a full time employee of the MSU, have responsibilities and should be paid according to the work they provide. Throwing around "I DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH HE IS PAID OMG" doesn't change anything. Trying to bring up the fact that ignorant students express dismay at the executive's mediocre pay doesn't change anything either.

In the process of replying via a mobile. Accidentally hit post prematurely. My apologies. Will update shortly.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

As someone who works a minimum wage job(like many other students), I hardly feel that what is essentially twice my rate of pay is "a hair over minimum wage". And from what I've been able to gauge from fellow students, most wholeheartedly agree with me on this.

The executive positions are jobs that exist to serve students, and yet most students weren't even aware that they were paying them that much to do it-- in a lot of cases that we were paying them at all-- and now there are people defending it by trying to tell say how minimal it is. I welcome those people to please tell that to the majority of working students in this school, hell in this country, that make well under that salary how very minimal a $40,000 salary is. I don't think you'll find too much agreement. And if it is so very minimal I find it odd that when I'm giving speeches to fellow students that I consistently hear expressions of shock from fellow students about it. Maybe to a select few it is a minimal pay, but the reality is to most it's really not.

Furthermore, to address the defence of the VPs being elected by SRA members so it's "less of a popularity contest"-- that logic is flawed. It simply makes it a smaller, more targeted popularity contest. That's got to change, and that means focusing on re-engaging with our student community. We can't be complacent with such abysmal voter turnouts, "mere" Student Union or not. To me, I see the path to that as being one of sincere reform.

Finally, what exact fish to fry do you have that are bigger and more important than engaging the members of this student union? In my opinion this should be the most key and primary goal of a student union.

At the beginning, I was on your side of the argument but now I dunno.

Why should the president of the MSU be paid minimum wage?
Do they do a min. wage job?
Do they not manage people under them?
Do they not operate like 30 businesses in school?
Don't they have to negotiate with other organizations like Hospitality and McMaster itself on behalf of students?

Somehow I feel that managing an organization that does all that and more can't be compared to a minimum wage job.

^What he said. As I had mentioned in my long spiel, the Human Resources Industry has a few metrics and rough qualifiers to assess wages in various sectors/industries, we utilize these for our full time staff (aka non student exec who have been working for us for 2-25+ years) and when we ran ourselves through these for fun our wages were assessed at close to $100,000 for the amount of responsibility, work and expectations with these jobs. In a way I think it is unfair for people to make assumptions about what these jobs are and aren't unless they have seen them or worked with them more closely and understood the depth of the $14 Million Organization that is the MSU.

To be honest, you are the first SRA candidate I've seen go off on this tangent, almost all other people have understood the need for these jobs at where they are.

If you don't like it then run for MSU President and remove the salary yourself.

Wait... You won't do that. You would want that salary. You're just jealous its not you.

Welcome to real life. Where people that apply themselves for positions of salaries and benefits receive salaries and benefits.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Whatever you want to think. $40,000 is not that much for a corporate manager to make. IF you want to think that knocking off $10,000 will improve the system, by all means fight for it. You'll have essentially eliminated most of the intelligent people from ever wanting to be MSU President (not saying there's been a lot in the running in the past anyways) because anyone that is potentially successful has FAR better opportunities awaiting them.

Very well said.

The problem is that the President and VP's aren't elected based on experience or merit as a top manager of a huge organization. In "real" jobs there is a formal application and interview process which finds the best candidate based on qualifications, experience, fit etc. With the MSU President and VP positions, there is no formal hiring process, so $40000 goes to the winner of a popularity contest where a large percentage of the voters give no shits about the candidates and simply vote based on face value (sorry Jacob Brodka, but you came second because you are attractive and had nice posters). The VP's at least are chosen by people who care and know more than the average student so I'm actually more okay with the VP's salary than the Presidents.

Originally Posted by Phaint

If you don't like it then run for MSU President and remove the salary yourself.

Wait... You won't do that. You would want that salary. You're just jealous its not you.

No, I'm really not "jealous". I'd appreciate if you didn't imply how I feel about things. What I am is confused as to why most members of our student union aren't aware that our executive board is paid a full salary. I think it's absolute bull no candidate has been upfront that the job they're running for is a paid one, and that's why I'm pushing for this.

Additionally, it isn't up to the president to directly remove their salary-- that is within the mandate of the SRA to modify. While sure the president is more than able to donate their salary back to the MSU, that would be an independent action and not hold any direct sway over future presidents.

To clarify: I am not necessarily attacking the amount of the salary as something that is dreamily huge. But I welcome any of you to take a look at the salaries of the other student union presidential boards-- they're generally much lower. Why are they able to operate with such budgets while ours is apparently incapable? I don't buy it, and that's what I'm trying to make clear.

What my platform says is that I am campaigning for a salary that is directly tied to a system that ensures they're earning their wage, and that it's more transparent to the members of the student union.

It's not okay that right now, most students do not know our presidents and vice presidents get paid. That is my argument. As it currently stands we could elect a joke candidate and there would be very little in the way of stopping them from getting that full wage, and do absolutely nothing to earn it.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

To be honest, you are the first SRA candidate I've seen go off on this tangent, almost all other people have understood the need for these jobs at where they are.

Maybe that's just exactly why so many people are so shocked to hear about this. Not because they "understood", but because they didn't even know.

Again I bring your attention to the fact that the executives of other Student Unions with similar operations are paid far less and seem to be fully capable.

Accidental post.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

No, I'm really not "jealous". I'd appreciate if you didn't imply how I feel about things.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume everything is directed towards you.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

What I am is confused as to why most members of our student union aren't aware that our executive board is paid a full salary. I think it's absolute bull no candidate has been upfront that the job they're running for is a paid one, and that's why I'm pushing for this.

Do you want a brochure every week updating you on things you can be mad about? Its people's own responsibilities to inform themselves. If having an anti-salary conversation gives you an erection then by all means start a frivolous campaign about it.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

As it currently stands we could elect a joke candidate and there would be very little in the way of stopping them from getting that full wage, and do absolutely nothing to earn it.

To me it just sounds like you're mad at democracy. If the MSU Presidential was appointed by McMaster Administration you'd probably find something else to deem unfair as your platform to find yourself elected for some position you seem to be after.

What's your agenda? You say salaries aren't a fair incentive. What's yours? The good of McMaster-kind? Its not even Easter yet.

Originally Posted by Phaint

To me it just sounds like you're mad at democracy. If the MSU Presidential was appointed by McMaster Administration you'd probably find something else to deem unfair as your platform to find yourself elected for some position you seem to be after.

I'm not mad at democracy: It's part of my platform that I want more of it. If Presidents were decided upon by administration, yes, I would have a problem with that.

Originally Posted by Phaint

What's your agenda? You say salaries aren't afair incentive. What's yours? The good of McMaster-kind?.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

I'm not mad at democracy: It's part of my platofrm that I want more of it.

What do you purpose for "more democracy" then?

Originally Posted by Eric_G

If Presidents were decided upon administration, yes, I would have a problem with that.

I think you would have a problem with anything as long as it means you have a platform to stand on.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

Yes.

Then why did you need an election as opportunity to campaign against this?

Seems like an awareness campaign would do just the same, then someone with real purpose could have the positon you're after.

I don't see a reason to vote for you. What's your plan? More posters telling students that MSU Executives are making money once you're elected?

My jaw is still on the floor... they get paid? I thought this was a co-curricular activity? LOL

Originally Posted by Phaint

I don't see a reason to vote for you. What's your plan? More posters telling students that MSU Executives are making money once you're elected?

Students have to want to read those posters... You assume they will.

Originally Posted by Phaint

What do you purpose for "more democracy" then?

Elected Vice Presidents, more SRA seats-- and having them divvied up by more than just faculty. Have seats for large clubs and societies. These are just starting points. I suggest you read this article in the Sil, it has some spot-on recommendations: http://www.thesil.ca/editorial-need-...eform-persists

Originally Posted by Phaint

I think you would have a problem with anything as long as it means you have a platform to stand on.

You're welcome to that opinion, but ignoring things I think are wrong with the way society functions makes me a person who is silently permissive, and I'm not willing to be affixed to that label.

Originally Posted by Phaint

Then why did you need an election as opportunity to campaign against this?

Because the SRA is the group that is able to change this. It seems nobody else had a problem with the way things currently were on the SRA, so I brought it upon myself to run to make students aware of it and, hopefully, be given the mandate to try and change it, and I feel I'm the best person for pursuing it. I'm passionate about this, and want to see and make change happen.

Originally Posted by Phaint

I don't see a reason to vote for you. What's your plan? More posters telling students that MSU Executives are making money once you're elected?

If you would actually read my platform before asking that, it would be clear to see what my plans actually are. I'm not a one-issue candidate.

In short, my platform is as follows:

- Pursuing democratic reform by pushing to have VPs elected.
- Working with the MSU Elections Department to increase the amount of electoral data we receive from elections so we can better analyze voter trends so as to see who we're engaging and who we're not, so we can aim to engage our students better.
- Having the MSU cover election costs for students on financial assistance as it is a potential barrier for people who would like to run but can't afford to.
- Advocating to the university to look into options to remedy "Lake McMaster"
- Advocating to the university to pursue space for SOCS on-campus, given its membership base.
- Advocating to the university to look into the lacking reliability we've been receiving from Desire2Learn as an outside company.

Originally Posted by Eric_G

- Advocating to the university to look into the lacking reliability we've been receiving from Desire2Learn as an outside company.

Lulz.

You know you're young when...

When you think D2L is lacking reliability.

At least its not ELM.