Originally Posted by mike_302

It just sounds like the new-age of high school students that was in its infancy when I finished high school, and went full force in the following years: That is, Ontario made it policy not to fail students, so more students could ask for marks and EXPECT solid marks in everything because standards went down. Then students had this sense of entitlement to good grades... IF they weren't getting them, then they could hide behind something. In high school, it was hiding behind your parents as they shouted at the teacher to get you a better grade. Then in University, the common thing I'm hearing from a lot of first year students is to either find a way out of doing the test (MSAF) if you are going to get an unpleasant mark, or finding every trick in the book to drop the course in the most dire case.

I understand your point and some of what you say is valid. However, in a previous post you talked about how first year students make generalizations about marks and graduate studies that (to some degree) seem unnecessary to you, and then you go on in this post and make a generalization about how all first years expect marks. I'm sure some do, but there are plenty that don't, and saying that you love how first years make generalizations about marks and graduate studies loses its affect when you go and say that ALL of today's first years expect marks.

Youtube the course. No the crap that the TAs put on it, but good videos. They are like 15 minutes long, teach you more than what Holmes teaches you in an hour and more. The second mid term was a *****, but me studying 1 day before mid terms, without an practice problems ended me with an 8 in that course. Also, I did not attend any lecture. Youtube is your friend.

Originally Posted by vinny06

I understand your point and some of what you say is valid. However, in a previous post you talked about how first year students make generalizations about marks and graduate studies that (to some degree) seem unnecessary to you, and then you go on in this post and make a generalization about how all first years expect marks. I'm sure some do, but there are plenty that don't, and saying that you love how first years make generalizations about marks and graduate studies loses its affect when you go and say that ALL of today's first years expect marks.

Nah man, there are a tonne of first years that make this assumption that you're going to maintain the same grades as in high school, and you'll need those same grades to get into University. And they mistakenly think that in your fourth year, your first year grades matter... I made that particular assumption myself. Not so directly, but I worried a lot about what my GPA was.

But the second point is 100% true. Nothing ever applies to everyone, so if you were offended because you took care not to be the guy who's parents got him better marks, then I'm sorry, but a very large chunk of your year did do that.

I remember my grade 12 year. One girl waited until the first Physics test, and made a promise to drop physics if she didn't get a certain grade, because that wouldn't look good on her "Architect school" application. Another guy had his parents come in (yea, in grade 12) and question the physics teacher about what we all claimed were unfair questions (he failed the test). Looking back on it, I realize they were totally fair. None the less, most of us didn't get our parents in. But I remember talking to the teacher at the end of the year... He said he was worried about an explosion of that kind of attitude in the following years, since the Ontario government made it more acceptable. I went back and visited, as many of us do at Christmas break of our first year, and sure enough, people were constantly complaining about their assignment marks, and asking for tests to be postponed, etc. My English teacher had to meet with 3 different parents the night I was visiting! they requested to speak with him about their son's or daughter's marks on the previous test.

Go back to your high school and ask a teacher if they noticed that difference, from before your time. You grew up with this new policy since grade 10. It's hard to notice a change like that when it's surrounding you for 3 out of 4 years.

I'm not saying that I never noticed that kind of an attitude amongst some people, I was just pointing out that you saying that everyone who has come out of high-school after a certain period has that very attitude was a little misleading. There were definitely some people who constantly complained about their marks, but there were also many who knew what was fair. I just thought it wasn't fair to say that all 'first years' have bloated expectations about marks.

However, I do see what you're talking about. Some of the profs I had during the fall semester also pointed out that since the MSAF was put into place they see a lot more absences during midterms because students tend to use it 'strategically.' Those comments were made more clear when half of the room for my second Bio and Math midterms were empty.

i remember my first year my grandfather died and I had to miss a QUIZ to attend the funeral. Free MSAF policy didnt exist at that point and I went to get the mark pushed to my exam. The person actually asked to see the obituary and a note from my mother explaining that this was my grandfather (mother's side so he didnt have the same last name). This was sort of harsh but I wouldn't mind seeing it go back to this method.

As for high school. The highest mark in my graduating class was 93 average. No-one got above 92 in english, and there were precious few who got 90s in most courses. As it should be. A parent complained to my teacher saying a physics test was FAR to difficult and he should be ashamed of himself for lowering the students average. My teacher pointedly showed the average..73% which is near exactly what its supposed to be. I hear of these 97%-100% averages in highschools and just shake my head. There should only be a few people in all of Ontario per year capable of these marks, and zero people able to get 100% because no-one is perfect (especially in social sciences and english where there are no certain answers).

Gotta love engineering though. It will shatter those high marks pretty quickly to all but a select few, and If you really were babied in highschool...well good luck even passing.