[McIntyre]

The MSU is in discussions with the HSR in regards to renewing the HSR Bus Pass for full-time undergraduate students, which occurs every 3 years.

The 8-month full-time undergraduate bus pass currently costs 140% ($121.80) of the HSR monthly bus pass (8 months = $696). The continuation of this program would require over 10% of full-time undergraduate students vote in the referendum (being held concurrently with the MSU 2011 Presidential elections) with a majority voting to continue the program.

The MSU is seeking feedback on your experiences with the HSR in order to better understand the day-to-day experiences of McMaster students with the HSR.

To fill out the brief survey, visit https://www.msumcmaster.ca/services/hsr/survey.htm.

I don't understand your math.... 121/596=0.2 (approx) making the cost 20% of what it could be, where did the 140% come from?

I love the HSR and it is great that we get the really cheap bus passes. I have a sibling right now that is going to a school where they don't provide passes and it is a big pain.

It's 140% of a one-month pass, I think, so since a single-month pass is $87, 140% of that is $121.80.

Also, I will be very disappointed, not to mention surprised, if anyone votes no to this. It's the most useful use of the money I pay the school.

On an unrelated note: I know it's not marked or anything, but seeing the ratio of green check marks to the red Xs after finishing the questionnaire is really discouraging.

That might just be because I got two test marks today and both of them sucked though.

Originally Posted by Joey

I don't understand your math.... 121/596=0.2 (approx) making the cost 20% of what it could be, where did the 140% come from?

I love the HSR and it is great that we get the really cheap bus passes. I have a sibling right now that is going to a school where they don't provide passes and it is a big pain.

Lol. No, what they meant was that the McMaster HSR bus pass is 140% of a regular monthly pass but covers 8 months of the year instead of just one. They just happened to mention that over 8 months it would cost $596 if you were to buy a regular one each month.

And yes it is rather handy, even if you commute by car.

if 8 months costs $596 then each month is ~$75 so we are actually paying 160% (121/75) of a monthly pass for 8 months. OP's math is wrong or a typo somewhere but its still a good deal...if you use hsr. personally i wish you could opt out of it

Originally Posted by lilkarina

if 8 months costs $596 then each month is ~$75 so we are actually paying 160% (121/75) of a monthly pass for 8 months. OP's math is wrong or a typo somewhere but its still a good deal...if you use hsr. personally i wish you could opt out of it

It should be 696, probably a typo.

It is a typo - thanks for the correction - updating it now. 8 months would cost $696, as the adult monthly pass is $87. We, as students, pay $121.80, which is $140%.

I'd want to keep it, but I'd really like an option to opt out. I've only ever extensively used the bus in one out of my 3 years here so far, but I know it's rather useful to a lot of other people.

I am so glad that we have this feature, honestly the cost and trouble of getting tickets or a monthly pass in some other schools really made me realize how lucky we are.

I see alot of people use the pass, especially in the winter so hopefully enough of them care to vote Yes for it...

Most useful thing ever.

Hey Tailsnake,

Just to quickly respond, the bus pass would not exist as an opt-out program. There is an old FAQs on the MSU website I will update shortly, but it will still be true for your question:

The short answer is that due to the nature of the agreement between the MSU and the HSR, it is not possible to issue refunds to students who do not require the bus pass.

If you want to know more, read on!

In order for a U-Pass program to benefit everybody involved, it must be revenue neutral. This means that the total revenue given to the transit agency (in this case, the HSR) must be equal to the amount it would have received from normal fares if the students did not have the bus pass.

In a sense, it works like the Canadian health care system. Everybody pays for the program, but different people use the system to different degrees, and everyone benefits from the program in different ways. In order for the pass to remain affordable (and beneficial) to everyone, more people need to put money into the pot than are actually using the system on a regular basis.

If the U-Pass were an opt-out program, and only the people who regularly used the bus contributed to the agreement, the pass would cost about the same amount as buying eight adult bus passes, almost eight times its current price. Clearly, if the pass cost this much, fewer students would choose to use transit it get to school, and driving to and parking on campus would become even more of a nightmare.

If you’re not a regular bus-user, it may seem like a pretty rough deal thatyou pay the same amount for the bus pass as everybody else, but you’re benefitting from the arrangement as well! If the system were opt-in, many students who currently take the bus would instead be driving to school. This would mean fewer available parking spaces, and much heavier traffic around the campus, particularly during peak travel times. If you live near campus, chances are good that your street would be even more crowded with people parking and walking to school to avoid paying to park in McMaster lots. Furthermore, if the demand for parking increases significantly, it’s likely that the cost of parking permits would also increase -- especially if the University needed to build more parking lots! Parking structures cost between $10 000 - $20 000 per space, plus annual maintenance costs. Not having to invest in parking lots means more money (and more space!) for new buildings and greenspace on campus. Don’t forget that all Canadians pay taxes toward road infrastructure for your car, regardless of whether or not they can drive.

Of course, there’s also the environmental aspect of all this. Hamilton already has one of the highest rates of commuters in single-occupant vehicles. Without the bus pass, the numbers would increase further, creating even more smog in the city. 50% of air pollution is caused by motor vehicles -- even in Hamilton, an industrial city. No one wants to be breathing in particulate matter!

It would be great to get more responses! Pass it around to friends please!

This is the single most awesome thing about the Fall semester @ Mac. Encourages a lot of newcomers to the city to explore it freely.

Originally Posted by McIntyre

Hey Tailsnake,

Just to quickly respond, the bus pass would not exist as an opt-out program. There is an old FAQs on the MSU website I will update shortly, but it will still be true for your question:

The short answer is that due to the nature of the agreement between the MSU and the HSR, it is not possible to issue refunds to students who do not require the bus pass.

If you want to know more, read on!

In order for a U-Pass program to benefit everybody involved, it must be revenue neutral. This means that the total revenue given to the transit agency (in this case, the HSR) must be equal to the amount it would have received from normal fares if the students did not have the bus pass.

In a sense, it works like the Canadian health care system. Everybody pays for the program, but different people use the system to different degrees, and everyone benefits from the program in different ways. In order for the pass to remain affordable (and beneficial) to everyone, more people need to put money into the pot than are actually using the system on a regular basis.

If the U-Pass were an opt-out program, and only the people who regularly used the bus contributed to the agreement, the pass would cost about the same amount as buying eight adult bus passes, almost eight times its current price. Clearly, if the pass cost this much, fewer students would choose to use transit it get to school, and driving to and parking on campus would become even more of a nightmare.

If you’re not a regular bus-user, it may seem like a pretty rough deal thatyou pay the same amount for the bus pass as everybody else, but you’re benefitting from the arrangement as well! If the system were opt-in, many students who currently take the bus would instead be driving to school. This would mean fewer available parking spaces, and much heavier traffic around the campus, particularly during peak travel times. If you live near campus, chances are good that your street would be even more crowded with people parking and walking to school to avoid paying to park in McMaster lots. Furthermore, if the demand for parking increases significantly, it’s likely that the cost of parking permits would also increase -- especially if the University needed to build more parking lots! Parking structures cost between $10 000 - $20 000 per space, plus annual maintenance costs. Not having to invest in parking lots means more money (and more space!) for new buildings and greenspace on campus. Don’t forget that all Canadians pay taxes toward road infrastructure for your car, regardless of whether or not they can drive.

Of course, there’s also the environmental aspect of all this. Hamilton already has one of the highest rates of commuters in single-occupant vehicles. Without the bus pass, the numbers would increase further, creating even more smog in the city. 50% of air pollution is caused by motor vehicles -- even in Hamilton, an industrial city. No one wants to be breathing in particulate matter!

Thanks for the excellent explanation John, I'll post this on FB and see if I can drum up a bit more interest

the fact of the matter is for those people who use the HSr bus be happy for having a cheap bus ride at the cost of other students.

Bottom line mandatory bus pass is bull****.

And don't give me no parking, congestion or environmental bs. As a person who walks to campus there is zero benefits of a universal bus pass system.

If i wanted to throw away hundreds of dollars I'd give it to charities not to make someones bus ride cheaper at my expense.


Ya i know bit of a heated argument but being forced to pay something that you'll never use is frustrating.