MacInsiders Logo

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting article: Foster care for obese kids? hamnahx02 General Discussion 13 08-17-2011 02:25 PM
Interesting article about OSAP in The Spec Kathy2 Financial Aid 62 03-15-2010 02:22 AM
Your thoughts on... Goce General Discussion 5 04-22-2009 08:04 PM
Interesting Videos.... lorend General Discussion 7 03-15-2009 03:57 PM
Tell us your thoughts on Welcome Day! kokosas MacInsiders Announcements 17 08-11-2008 08:33 AM

Interesting article...thoughts?

 
Old 09-08-2011 at 10:29 PM   #16
Mr.Prodigy
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 238

Thanked: 12 Times
Liked: 43 Times




Alright buddy, two things:

1) Look up what "Jihad" really means. Scholars have written entire books regarding this one topic, and you just like the layman seems to equate it with violence. Research Sufism if you don't already know what it is. Jihad is a critical aspect of it, but in a completely different way. A way that might actually come at a shock to you.

2) Many people don't believe in "collective guilt", and nor should they. If you're expecting an apology from someone who wasn't involved, you're not gonna get one. It's as simple as that.
Old 09-09-2011 at 11:17 AM   #17
J. Dorey
Elite Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 387

Thanked: 43 Times
Liked: 169 Times




The way I see it, radical Muslims are, in essence, treated the same way that the "Bible thumping" Christians are and, quite frankly, are responsible for the humiliation of the entire religion. Many people that I know criticize my choice for being a Roman Catholic on the basis that "all Christians are lunatics", when truthfully, I believe in the Big Bang Theory over Creationism and trust science over multiple other biblical "truths". Since the media typically shows the radical Christians from the Bible Belt in the US, this is where I draw comparisons to radical Muslims. How often do you see normal, every day Christians like myself in the media being interviewed for debates such as abortion and euthanasia? Never. On the other end of the religious spectrum, then, how often do you see normal, every day Muslims in the media at all? Never. Why don't we see normal religious peoples? Because it isn't exciting! It doesn't make for a good story. Now, before you jump on me, I am not saying that the degree of humiliation is the same, I am simply saying that there are similar reasons for why they are humiliated.
__________________
Combined Honours Cultural Studies and Critical Theory and English III
Hummer Welcome Week Rep '12
Die Hard New York Yankees Fan
Old 09-10-2011 at 06:01 AM   #18
lawleypop
I am Prince Vegeta.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,770

Thanked: 224 Times
Liked: 1,373 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Prodigy View Post
Alright buddy, two things:

1) Look up what "Jihad" really means. Scholars have written entire books regarding this one topic, and you just like the layman seems to equate it with violence. Research Sufism if you don't already know what it is. Jihad is a critical aspect of it, but in a completely different way. A way that might actually come at a shock to you.

2) Many people don't believe in "collective guilt", and nor should they. If you're expecting an apology from someone who wasn't involved, you're not gonna get one. It's as simple as that.
2) Actually, you should. I apologize daily for the behavior of other french people. Just because I'm french myself doesn't mean I can't acknowledge and apologize for their often retarded behavior.

It doesn't matter if you're not the problem, if you're similar enough to the problem you better make it clear that "we're not all retards." Because otherwise stereotyping is a perfectly natural function.


(off the top of my head? separatism for all the people who have never met an angry frog)



Furthermore, why the **** then are white folk of the 21st century apologizing/being shit upon for SHIT THEY DID NOT DO to black people, natives, etc HOWEVER MANY YEARS AGO.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But this isn't the way the world works. For some reason, you ARE indirectly responsible/culpable for the actions of other people (if you look like them) and people DO expect apologies.
__________________

Mathematically it makes about as much sense as
(pineapple)$$*cucumbe r*.


Last edited by lawleypop : 09-10-2011 at 08:42 AM.
Old 09-10-2011 at 07:38 AM   #19
Rudiger
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 70

Thanked: 33 Times
Liked: 36 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Prodigy View Post
1) Look up what "Jihad" really means.
Jihad doesn't have a real meaning. It's subjective. When the western media uses the word, they are just agreeing with Muslims like this guy: http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2795.htm

Yet another reason I'm not a big fan of any religion is people getting up in arms over the semantics and translations of a bunch of old books.
Old 09-10-2011 at 11:33 AM   #20
Yogurt
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 250

Thanked: 23 Times
Liked: 237 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
Jihad doesn't have a real meaning.
Yes it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
It's subjective.
No it isn't.



Jihad literally means to struggle. In Islam, it's to struggle in the way of God. There're two forms of Jihad:

1) The greater Jihad, Jihad Al-Nafs, is a self struggle, the inner struggle, the one we deal with everyday. Controlling urges, fighting the urge to do evil, all that stuff.

2) The other Jihad is physical, fighting in the way of God. It can only be done under two circumstances. First only qualifies if the state is a Islamic state, and the people are being oppressed. The leader of the state has to declare whether or not the state shall retaliate, and only then is it considered Jihad. If a crack corrupt ruler just decides to wage war does not make it Jihad. Second is if the state's ruler is corrupt, and is oppressing the people and preventing them from practising their religion. Only then can the people get together and overthrow him. Dying in one of these is considered the best Jihad. In Islam, any killing done outside of said conditions and reasons is blatant murder, and is a sentence to hell, God willing.

Thanks to media, Jihad is a bunch of Muslims strapped with guns and explosives, pointing to the sky, shouting Allahu-Akbar, and ready to blow up a bunch of civilians. And sadly enough, people believe it. What those idiots are doing is in absolutely no form Islam. They're sick, and full of shit, and deserve to rot in whatever dreaded eternity you may or may not believe in.

Last edited by Yogurt : 09-10-2011 at 02:56 PM.

dsalvatore says thanks to Yogurt for this post.

Mr.Prodigy likes this.
Old 09-10-2011 at 11:49 AM   #21
Juicebox
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 147

Thanked: 26 Times
Liked: 179 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogurt View Post
Thanks to media, Jihad is a bunch of Muslims strapped with guns and explosives, pointing to the sky, shouting Allahu-Akbar, and ready to blow up a bunch of civilians. And sadly enough, people believe it.
I think the main issue is that there are Muslims doing such things. That fact is only worsened each time they claim that they are waging jihad against the western sinners or whatnot. Now if you are willing to try and convince them that it's a semantic error and that they are not allowed to use that word because not all the requirements have been met to wage jihad, that's all fine and dandy. But that's ignoring the larger issue, which is senseless violence, oppression, and backwardness inspired by ancient texts and religions.
Old 09-10-2011 at 11:55 AM   #22
Yogurt
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 250

Thanked: 23 Times
Liked: 237 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
I think the main issue is that there are Muslims doing such things.........
I don't deny that, but that wasn't my point. My point was that, with the media classifying such acts a Jihad, people are brainwashed and now think that Islam allows and encourages such acts.
Old 09-10-2011 at 12:08 PM   #23
dsalvatore
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 81

Thanked: 14 Times
Liked: 67 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
Now if you are willing to try and convince them that it's a semantic error and that they are not allowed to use that word because not all the requirements have been met to wage jihad, that's all fine and dandy.
...And how do you propose we do that? I do my best on a daily basis to represent my religion in a good way because I know people will automatically look at me and think "terrorist." If I can change their narrow mind, fine, but why should I have to when I haven't done anything wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
But that's ignoring the larger issue, which is senseless violence, oppression, and backwardness inspired by ancient texts and religions.
But who are you to say that? Just because you don't believe in these ancient texts, doesn't make you any better than a person who prescribes to a given religion. You just make the choice not to follow any faith while they make the choice to follow a certain religion. If they feel like it's enriching and improving their lives and YOU aren't affected, then who are you to object? And I'm talking about the normal Muslims you encounter everyday and not the extremists you see on the news.

I haven't suffered any violence or oppression and I'm a practicing Muslim. What backwardness? If you believe what the media tells you, that Muslim men are backwards and Muslim women are oppressed, then how am I a Muslim woman who drives, goes to university and is treated equally to my male family members? I don't feel any different than any other girl you know...I just make the conscious CHOICE to cover my body and treat it with respect rather than abuse it and pump it with alcohol.
Old 09-10-2011 at 12:12 PM   #24
Rudiger
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 70

Thanked: 33 Times
Liked: 36 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogurt View Post

Thanks to media, Jihad is a bunch of Muslims strapped with guns and explosives, pointing to the sky, shouting Allahu-Akbar, and ready to blow up a bunch of civilians.
Sorry, but there are actual people strapped with guns and explosives doing violence, calling it jihad, and they are doing it in the name of Islam. It isn't a media invention.

I get that you disagree with them, and in no way do I think the regular Islamic folks I know or that I see everyday are terrorists. But your argument is always going to be "they're doing Islam wrong, we're doing it right." They think the opposite. This is the subjectivity I'm talking about.

IbrahimH likes this.
Old 09-10-2011 at 12:18 PM   #25
Juicebox
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 147

Thanked: 26 Times
Liked: 179 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalvatore View Post

I haven't suffered any violence or oppression and I'm a practicing Muslim. What backwardness? If you believe what the media tells you, that Muslim men are backwards and Muslim women are oppressed, then how am I a Muslim woman who drives, goes to university and is treated equally to my male family members? I don't feel any different than any other girl you know...I just make the conscious CHOICE to cover my body and treat it with respect rather than abuse it and pump it with alcohol.

I'm not going to respond to your entire post because I save my theological debates for philosophy classes. I would just like to point out that it is a bit odd to take pride in the liberties that you have through the virtue of living in a western democracy. I would be much more impressed if such liberties were available in Islamic states.

IbrahimH likes this.
Old 09-10-2011 at 12:41 PM   #26
dsalvatore
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 81

Thanked: 14 Times
Liked: 67 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
I'm not going to respond to your entire post because I save my theological debates for philosophy classes. I would just like to point out that it is a bit odd to take pride in the liberties that you have through the virtue of living in a western democracy. I would be much more impressed if such liberties were available in Islamic states.
I would respect your arguments a lot more if you don't go out of your way to sound condescending...

I lived in an "Islamic State" for 6 years. I led the same life I lead now in Canada. So what's your point? If you're talking about nations like Saudi Arabia, I would like to point out that whatever injustices go on there are purely the backwardness of a culture, not the religion. This is the point that people like you ignore no matter how many times it's put out there.

The Islamic religion gave a woman her rights LONG before your "Western Democracy" did. We never had to fight for our rights, they were always there. Western women had to revolt and even then only got part of their rights through the Suffrage movement what, about a hundred years ago?

Women had the right to own property, vote, get an education, work, and get involved in the military (etc) since the beginning of Islam some 1400 years ago. Respect for women was highly emphasized and stressed upon. A woman entering a marriage didn't have to give any of her property or wealth to her husband and whatever income she makes is SOLELY hers unless she chooses otherwise.

When did the Western world give women these rights? Women still TO THIS DAY have to fight and struggle to be treated as equals in the workforce. Women still face the glass ceiling.

I also have the right not to be looked at as a piece of meat that exists solely for the entertainment of men. The rights of a woman in Western democracy? To strip down and have her body exploited so men can make the big bucks. So you're saying I'm only truly "liberated" if I allow people to gawk at my half-naked body?

Mr.Prodigy, Yogurt like this.
Old 09-10-2011 at 01:10 PM   #27
Rudiger
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 70

Thanked: 33 Times
Liked: 36 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalvatore View Post
So you're saying I'm only truly "liberated" if I allow people to gawk at my half-naked body?
No, you're liberated if you're given the option.

Juicebox likes this.
Old 09-10-2011 at 01:17 PM   #28
dsalvatore
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 81

Thanked: 14 Times
Liked: 67 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudiger View Post
No, you're liberated if you're given the option.
But who's forcing me? Like someone else said, I live in a country where I have my "full liberties" to the extent where if my parents try to force me into anything, I can have them hauled off by social services. So why wouldn't I have the option? I have the option- of whether or not to believe in my religion and whether or not to follow it. And I choose to follow it. I can wear whatever I like tomorrow and no-one can stop me but myself. So where's the problem?
Old 09-10-2011 at 01:47 PM   #29
Rudiger
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 70

Thanked: 33 Times
Liked: 36 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsalvatore View Post
But who's forcing me? Like someone else said, I live in a country where I have my "full liberties" to the extent where if my parents try to force me into anything, I can have them hauled off by social services. So why wouldn't I have the option? I have the option- of whether or not to believe in my religion and whether or not to follow it. And I choose to follow it. I can wear whatever I like tomorrow and no-one can stop me but myself. So where's the problem?
After you described the many freedoms you have and took a shot at women who choose to drink alcohol, Juicebox said those freedoms are from living in a western democracy. You said the right of a woman in a western democracy is " To strip down and have her body exploited so men can make the big bucks."

The reality is, women here have the choice. If our country strictly followed and enforced the doctrines about dressing modestly that are found in the Qu'ran, they wouldn't have the choice.
Old 09-10-2011 at 01:55 PM   #30
Mr.Prodigy
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 238

Thanked: 12 Times
Liked: 43 Times




Quote:
Originally Posted by lawleypop View Post
2) Actually, you should. I apologize daily for the behavior of other french people. Just because I'm french myself doesn't mean I can't acknowledge and apologize for their often retarded behavior.

It doesn't matter if you're not the problem, if you're similar enough to the problem you better make it clear that "we're not all retards." Because otherwise stereotyping is a perfectly natural function.


(off the top of my head? separatism for all the people who have never met an angry frog)



Furthermore, why the **** then are white folk of the 21st century apologizing/being shit upon for SHIT THEY DID NOT DO to black people, natives, etc HOWEVER MANY YEARS AGO.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But this isn't the way the world works. For some reason, you ARE indirectly responsible/culpable for the actions of other people (if you look like them) and people DO expect apologies.
Stereotyping will always exist whether people stand up to it or not. Just like you mentioned, it's natural. Btw, which "white folk" are apologizing to Africans and Natives for their crimes against humanity? I've never heard of such so-called apologies. Apologize every day do you? As a Frank, when is the last time you apologized to North Africans for their mistreatment during WWII by your ancestors? You also seem to hold a strong opposition to discrimination and stereotyping, but did you ever bother writing an article or holding a public demonstration to denounce such things? Don't get me wrong, you may very well be the complete opposite of a hypocrite, but as Gandhi put it, you must "be the change you wish to see in the world."

Last edited by Mr.Prodigy : 09-10-2011 at 01:58 PM.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



McMaster University News and Information, Student-run Community, with topics ranging from Student Life, Advice, News, Events, and General Help.
Notice: The views and opinions expressed in this page are strictly those of the student(s) who authored the content. The contents of this page have not been reviewed or approved by McMaster University or the MSU (McMaster Students Union). Being a student-run community, all articles and discussion posts on MacInsiders are unofficial and it is therefore always recommended that you visit the official McMaster website for the most accurate up-to-date information.

Copyright © MacInsiders.com All Rights Reserved. No content can be re-used or re-published without permission. MacInsiders is a service of Fullerton Media Inc. | Created by Chad
Originally Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba vBulletin. All rights reserved. | Privacy | Terms